About the last point, it definitely gives more depth to the Drake character. I mean, what is he searching for in his life. Can he be happy living a normal life. It is in the subtext when he is talking with Elena (at least I felt it).
Last of Us [PS4]
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About the last point, it definitely gives more depth to the Drake character. I mean, what is he searching for in his life. Can he be happy living a normal life. It is in the subtext when he is talking with Elena (at least I felt it).
Sure, but
that doesn't explain why he's living a lie. You could say that he did it to get away from his crappy childhood, but that still doesn't explain why he's keeps on living the lie as an adult. Something important to a character should have been better explained.
RenegadeRocks
Legend
Yes, i agree on thise points too. Thats is why I found UC2 to be a more complete game. Uc3 had loopholes u don't really expect in the third game, when the first two did a good job of telling a charming story.
So many people making uninspired uc2 ripoffs as of late, this is looking like the actual sequel we should've gotten last year. Everyone is clearly playing a sad case of catch up. It's shocking how ahead of the curve they are to Tomb Raiders of the Uncharted 2 2.5 additions we'll be getting next year.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
In FFVII, the best part about the character Cloud Strife, aside from him ultimately finding out he is a failed clone of his worst enemy, is that he has been living for most of his life a lie, to try to get away from a past he was ashamed of. It was a lie he was so invested in, he actually convinced himself that it was true.
This was for me the most interesting, and compelling part of his character, and in the case of Uncharted 3 I think this new revelation added a much greater degree of depth (and darkness) to an already entertaining and likeable character. It was welcome for me... And i'm glad they didn't just blow their load and try to expound on it too much in U3. It's good to leave loose threads that you can unwind in later games
Keeps people intrigued imhoProphecy2k
Veteran
I don't even understand the complaint. The player ran straight into a confrontation because that's what the player CHOSE to do. It was obvious to me that the player had enough choice in that short demo whether to engage the enemies in combat, or avoid them. The mechanical tools afforded the player clearly allowed for a stealthy escape undetected.
So your complaint should not be with naughty dog as if the game design is at fault, rather the choice of the person playing the demo. So there's an easy solution...
You just make your own choice when you finally get to play the game yay!Edit:
Otoh, the main character attacking and killing those guys is not at all at odds with the story. As the story intends to present and uncomfortably brutal, and unforgiving world where people don't work together towards survivial, and its basically kill or be killed. When they're strapped for supplies and they think they can take what they need from an enemy quickly via ambush, they'll def do it. To me it shows just how violent and visceral the post-apolcalyptic world of TLOU is, and how the characters are forced to do things that we would consider uber sadistic and sociopathic.
Last edited by a moderator:
Billy Idol
Legend
I don't even understand the complaint. The player ran straight into a confrontation because that's what the player CHOSE to do. It was obvious to me that the player had enough choice in that short demo whether to engage the enemies in combat, or avoid them. The mechanical tools afforded the player clearly allowed for a stealthy escape undetected.
So your complaint should not be with naughty dog as if the game design is at fault, rather the choice of the person playing the demo. So there's an easy solution...
Edit:
Otoh, the main character attacking and killing those guys is not at all at odds with the story. As the story intends to present and uncomfortably brutal, and unforgiving world where people don't work together towards survivial, and its basically kill or be killed. When they're strapped for supplies and they think they can take what they need from an enemy quickly via ambush, they'll def do it. To me it shows just how violent and visceral the post-apolcalyptic world of TLOU is, and how the characters are forced to do things that we would consider uber sadistic and sociopathic.
Finally a reasonable person in this thread? Thanks Prophecy2k!
In FFVII, the best part about the character Cloud Strife, aside from him ultimately finding out he is a failed clone of his worst enemy, is that he has been living for most of his life a lie, to try to get away from a past he was ashamed of. It was a lie he was so invested in, he actually convinced himself that it was true.
This was for me the most interesting, and compelling part of his character, and in the case of Uncharted 3 I think this new revelation added a much greater degree of depth (and darkness) to an already entertaining and likeable character. It was welcome for me... And i'm glad they didn't just blow their load and try to expound on it too much in U3. It's good to leave loose threads that you can unwind in later games
I thought it was an interesting character development. To me it seems more appropriate to deal with his past first before moving into the future. Now that he has settled down with Elena it becomes a lot more difficult to do that. A lot of U3 seems to lead a good conclusion for Drake's story with him choosing Elena instead of going treasure hunting. Another sequel at this point could easily end up taking away from the existing storyline. Uncharted could end up like God of War where nothing makes sense any more. I'd much rather see Naughty Dog create new characters in a new setting like they are doing with TLoU.
I don't even understand the complaint. The player ran straight into a confrontation because that's what the player CHOSE to do. It was obvious to me that the player had enough choice in that short demo whether to engage the enemies in combat, or avoid them. The mechanical tools afforded the player clearly allowed for a stealthy escape undetected.
So your complaint should not be with naughty dog as if the game design is at fault, rather the choice of the person playing the demo. So there's an easy solution...
Edit:
Otoh, the main character attacking and killing those guys is not at all at odds with the story. As the story intends to present and uncomfortably brutal, and unforgiving world where people don't work together towards survivial, and its basically kill or be killed. When they're strapped for supplies and they think they can take what they need from an enemy quickly via ambush, they'll def do it. To me it shows just how violent and visceral the post-apolcalyptic world of TLOU is, and how the characters are forced to do things that we would consider uber sadistic and sociopathic.
Yes it was the players choice. And if we truly have that choice I'll make mine differently. I just find it strange that we still haven't seen an all stealth run (not killing anyone), making me wonder if such a thing is even possible.
In that video they were outnumbered and the only thing they took from the enemies were the bullets they wasted killing them. In other words, needless risk. What you describe sounds interesting, but it wasn't what happened in that video.
That nitpicking goes to shoe how good the game really is. The world ND created is so believable that people complain about small inconsistencies. Any other game out there is much more unrealistic but people do not complain because there are other more obvious faults to bother them before they even start considering story and such.
For anybody thinking you only have one option, read Prophecy's post:
People were complaining about the same thing for Hitman and Splinter Cell until they did a playthrough to show otherwise. I know gamers are cynical about this stuff since every other game is trying to do one-way blockbuster action-flick, but sometimes people just read way too far into this stuff.
I don't even understand the complaint. The player ran straight into a confrontation because that's what the player CHOSE to do. It was obvious to me that the player had enough choice in that short demo whether to engage the enemies in combat, or avoid them. The mechanical tools afforded the player clearly allowed for a stealthy escape undetected.
So your complaint should not be with naughty dog as if the game design is at fault, rather the choice of the person playing the demo. So there's an easy solution...
Edit:
Otoh, the main character attacking and killing those guys is not at all at odds with the story. As the story intends to present and uncomfortably brutal, and unforgiving world where people don't work together towards survivial, and its basically kill or be killed. When they're strapped for supplies and they think they can take what they need from an enemy quickly via ambush, they'll def do it. To me it shows just how violent and visceral the post-apolcalyptic world of TLOU is, and how the characters are forced to do things that we would consider uber sadistic and sociopathic.
At least you know you have the option to choose. Fight or stealth, it's all up to you.
People were complaining about the same thing for Hitman and Splinter Cell until they did a playthrough to show otherwise. I know gamers are cynical about this stuff since every other game is trying to do one-way blockbuster action-flick, but sometimes people just read way too far into this stuff.
Sigfried1977
Legend
I'm pretty sure they won't offer you the most sensible options unfortunately: wait for a bit, do something else and come back later, or simply find a less suicidal way around the whole mess. At least let me scavenge the dead bodies for supplies. Would have made all the pointless violence at least a little more justifiable. This is supposed to be about survival, or is it not?
That "puzzle" part looked beyond lame as well.
Billy Idol
Legend
Lucky you...because you don't have to buy the game if you don't like it...that's the beauty of our hobby, you know.
Sigfried1977
Legend
I guess Naughty Dog is beyond criticism here, or did this place suddenly turn into Gamefaqs? I simply just think it's a little frustrating that Naughty Dog puts so much effort into presentation and believable characters, only to put them in situations which normal human human beings (and ND loves to stress how the two protagonists are normal, everyday persons) would avoid at all costs as long as they've got at least a sliver of sanity left intact.
Like Yahtzee once said: There's the story and there's the gameplay, and in between the two sits an enormous electrified fence made of Tigers.
You guys seem to underestimate ND. I am completely sure all designers behind that game have thought of all of this that you are saying. Their games don't come from nowhere. Things are thought through, and they make conscious decisions.
They decided, well, we need to have some gameplay after all, and their game is the type that is pushing some action and a certain level of intensity. They are not making an open world RPG here. That is a design decision. And as such, they had to sacrifice some flexibility of choice. But to say the game offers none is a exaggeration. It is not Heavy Rain after all.
Do you guys see just how detailed that game is? The environments, the animation, the way characters interact? Do you really not see that at all?!? How is this the same old stuff? What are these other games that you are playing that rival that? The closest think I can think of is the uncharted games that you are also bashing.
You cant make a game with everything. Early on in the design process of a game you need to chose a compromise between Detail vs. Scope. With uncharted and LoU ND has chosen to go all the way in the Detail department, and they try to put as much player choice as possible within that budget of an Extremely detailed world. That is just the style they chose, and they are open about that. To have Uber Detail and Uber Scope in the same game, unfortunately is impractical. At least today. We need to be resonable with our expectations.
They decided, well, we need to have some gameplay after all, and their game is the type that is pushing some action and a certain level of intensity. They are not making an open world RPG here. That is a design decision. And as such, they had to sacrifice some flexibility of choice. But to say the game offers none is a exaggeration. It is not Heavy Rain after all.
Do you guys see just how detailed that game is? The environments, the animation, the way characters interact? Do you really not see that at all?!? How is this the same old stuff? What are these other games that you are playing that rival that? The closest think I can think of is the uncharted games that you are also bashing.
You cant make a game with everything. Early on in the design process of a game you need to chose a compromise between Detail vs. Scope. With uncharted and LoU ND has chosen to go all the way in the Detail department, and they try to put as much player choice as possible within that budget of an Extremely detailed world. That is just the style they chose, and they are open about that. To have Uber Detail and Uber Scope in the same game, unfortunately is impractical. At least today. We need to be resonable with our expectations.
Billy Idol
Legend
The problem is that your comments don't make much sense, especially your last post, sorry. It seems as if you did not watch the videos available and read the previews. We don't know much, only what devs state in interviews, but it seems that you know everything better and you simple ignore all posts that point you in this direction.
Here what I remember and gather so far:
- there was a short trailer that showed them driving in a car and than get attacked by this gang, which called them tourists, their code word for people who are open for hunting. We don't know what happens after this, but obviously they escaped and now want to get out of this part of the city, while the gang is hunting them-this is the motivation and background story for the demo.
- demo starts, devs state you have control and choice: aggressive, waisting ammo, health and other stuff or defensive, sneaking, avoiding confrontation - your choice.
- Joel is tough, it seems that he already saw to much, it seems that he got cold blooded. Realize, how Ellie comments after a battle, seeing dead bodys, and Joel don't want her staying that long. Remember the scene with the dead bodies in the bath tube and their discussion about suicide being easy - Joel stating 'trust me, it ain't easy' pointing towards his background.
- in my opinion: you kill those guys, because if you don't do it, they won't be to friendly if they catch you, especially to your little girl. I think this is a believable motivation...read 'The Road', with similar situation (father and son in this case). Still, devs state you can choose.
- they said, and there is one vid available where you see the inventory, that you can loot the bodys and get stuff, most obvious ammo. They state: decide if you combine stuff to make defensive gadgets like for healing or make aggressive stuff, for combat - your choice, your risk.
- demo starts, devs state you have control and choice: aggressive, waisting ammo, health and other stuff or defensive, sneaking, avoiding confrontation - your choice.
- Joel is tough, it seems that he already saw to much, it seems that he got cold blooded. Realize, how Ellie comments after a battle, seeing dead bodys, and Joel don't want her staying that long. Remember the scene with the dead bodies in the bath tube and their discussion about suicide being easy - Joel stating 'trust me, it ain't easy' pointing towards his background.
- in my opinion: you kill those guys, because if you don't do it, they won't be to friendly if they catch you, especially to your little girl. I think this is a believable motivation...read 'The Road', with similar situation (father and son in this case). Still, devs state you can choose.
- they said, and there is one vid available where you see the inventory, that you can loot the bodys and get stuff, most obvious ammo. They state: decide if you combine stuff to make defensive gadgets like for healing or make aggressive stuff, for combat - your choice, your risk.
We don't now much, but all this stuff clearly indicates imo that your critique is not grounded. Let's wait if we get more information and see how everything turns out...
I stop now and let it rest, because reading your last post, I am really not sure if you are serious, or just...
PS: and please, let it rest with 'no ND criticism allowed bla bla'
Prophecy2k
Veteran
Lol, hardly my friend. It's more like the rest of us are reasonable enough not to assume we know everything about the game from simply a couple of short demos showing the same areas, and a few dev interviews.
Isn't it better to take a "wait and see" approach before crying fire and brimstone over what you PERCIEVE you can and can't do in a game that isn't even close to release yet?
The fact is that these last two demos show pure gameplay. Gameplay completely driven by the choices and inputs of a person playing the demo. If it were just a CGI cutscene that we saw then I wouldn't be debating with you or Cyan, as your complaints would have merit. In this case however I don't believe they do, as your conclusions are far too premature.
By all means express valid criticism of the game once we know more, or once the game has been released. Otherwise you're just spouting useless hot air like the rest of the "love-to-whine-about-anything-regardless-of-its-validity" internet.
L. Scofield
Veteran
By that logic no game should be criticized pre-release because we should wait and see the final product first, right?
Billy Idol
Legend
No, you are wrong.
Look down my friend...
No one is saying the game can't or couldn't be judged before it's released, but that we don't have enough information to fairly judge the game at this point. We've only really seen a small fragment of what the game offers, and assuming it's "shit", "mediocre", or "just like Uncharted" would be jumping the gun.
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