Was Cell any good? *spawn

[kagemaru]

Ha ha, even without 360, they are forced to use Cell if they want to do something ambitious/advanced. Teh Cell is designed to be the star of the show.

From what I hear, the first few Insomniac games relied mostly on RSX for graphics work (No fancy SPU post processing).

I guess that depends on what you consider ambitious/advanced , there are some who've argued that Cell may have been able to do some ambitious/advanced non-graphical tasks if it wasn't helping RSX keep pace, but I digress.

Regardless, the only reason why I mentioned platform parity was due to assurdum's claim. We all know Cell is PS3's strength.

 

[patsu]

RSX is not slow, but it has some notorious bottlenecks to overcome.

Even if RSX has no bottleneck, it is possible that most developers will still spend most Cell time on graphics because they are the simplest to realize and see. ^_^

Physics would be another area. AI will depend on the nature of the game.

 

[kagemaru]

I never said RSX was slow, regardless I'm pulling out of this discussion as it's going nowhere and all you're doing is jumping to the PS3's defense when no one (other than the OP) is even bashing it.

 

[assurdum]

If you're trying to say that most multiplatform games don't use Cell for graphics to help RSX, I find that very hard to believe. Multiplatform games now are pretty much neck and neck between both platforms and I don't see that happening on the RSX alone in most cases.

I could be mistaken, but what you're saying here is flat out wrong IMO.

I can to understand my english is far to be flawless, but seriously where I have written something like that? I'm talking of spu usage like gpu & of FS2 of DiCE.

 

[patsu]

I never said RSX was slow, regardless I'm pulling out of this discussion as it's going nowhere and all you're doing is jumping to the PS3's defense when no one (other than the OP) is even bashing it.

[Scratch head]

I'm just saying the system is designed that way because Kutaragi wants Cell to be the star of the system, regardless of RSX or 360. And we may still see it used for graphics even if RSX is strong.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I would dare to say that if a game is optimized to run well on SPEs it WILL run great on Xenos as well. Sure, the actual underlying intrisics will have to be replaced but the general design and probably even data structures and memory layout should port over quite nicely.

Of course I'm no developer and I'm just saying that on my gut instinct. It would be great to hear what actual devs have to say about it

Sure, but my point you can't look at any one particular game and say, "Okay, this game is really taking advantage of USA/SPEs." I mean, not just by looking, you can't. The layers of effects are too subtle and too complex, and engines are good enough that good artists make most of the difference in perceived image quality.

 

[KongRudi]

Sure, but my point you can't look at any one particular game and say, "Okay, this game is really taking advantage of USA/SPEs." I mean, not just by looking, you can't. The layers of effects are too subtle and too complex, and engines are good enough that good artists make most of the difference in perceived image quality.

The physics in Motorstorm, Uncharted and Killzone seems kind of crazy compared to multiplatform-titles. :-/ I don't know if it's the 'Cell-factor' I see, but I do believe the Havok engine takes advantage of the SPU's.
But even tough alot of multiplatform games also use Havok, I don't think I've ever had the same feeling on my PC, as when I were racing in a hurricane and crashing buildings and tunnels in Motorstorm: Apocalypse, or when I were running and shooting at falling enemies in the hotel wich collapsed with realistic falling furniture in gameplay in Uncharted 2, or just by watching the wind blow in dusty desert-level in Killzone 2.

I usually prefer to playmore slow-paged RPG's and strategy-games on PC, and faster action/arcade games on PS3, so that might be some of the cause, but in general, I don't feel those moments happens as often on Havok-games on my PC, or games wich also have to run on other processors. :-/

 

[Arwin]

I'm inclined to agree with you. And we do know that Havok was optimised for SPE's at some point, giving it a big speed boost.

 

[TheWretched]

Well, iirc Uncharted 3 doesn't use havok anymore, and from what I saw in-game already (got the game today), it was worth it. There's a lot more "interactivity" with the environment this time around.

 

[patsu]

Sure, but my point you can't look at any one particular game and say, "Okay, this game is really taking advantage of USA/SPEs." I mean, not just by looking, you can't. The layers of effects are too subtle and too complex, and engines are good enough that good artists make most of the difference in perceived image quality.

Yes you can.

The original quality of MLAA in God of War 3 is still rather apparent.

PixelJunk Shooter's fluid dynamics gameplay is interesting too.

Killzone 2's heavy post processing is also pretty obvious.

I'm sure if we look closer, we can find more examples.

Well, iirc Uncharted 3 doesn't use havok anymore, and from what I saw in-game already (got the game today), it was worth it. There's a lot more "interactivity" with the environment this time around.

Yeah, that's why I want to check out BF3's destruction too.

 

[Neb]

The physics in Motorstorm, Uncharted and Killzone seems kind of crazy compared to multiplatform-titles. :-/ I don't know if it's the 'Cell-factor' I see, but I do believe the Havok engine takes advantage of the SPU's.
But even tough alot of multiplatform games also use Havok, I don't think I've ever had the same feeling on my PC, as when I were racing in a hurricane and crashing buildings and tunnels in Motorstorm: Apocalypse, or when I were running and shooting at falling enemies in the hotel wich collapsed with realistic falling furniture in gameplay in Uncharted 2, or just by watching the wind blow in dusty desert-level in Killzone 2.

The problem is you dont really know the complexity to make accurate claims to how work is done X vs Y. BFBC2 has lots of debris but utterly simplistic physics for example yet for most it is entirely convincing.

Btw "Cell-Factor" is a game with lots of physics!

 

[KongRudi]

Well, it's just how I feel when playing, and that's why I play..
Did cellfactor release as a game, or is it in tech-demo-limbo?

 

[Neb]

Well, it's just how I feel when playing, and that's why I play..
Did cellfactor release as a game, or is it in tech-demo-limbo?

Nah was a game but short. IIRC 3 maps but multiplayer based.

 

[TheD]

The physics in Motorstorm, Uncharted and Killzone seems kind of crazy compared to multiplatform-titles. :-/ I don't know if it's the 'Cell-factor' I see, but I do believe the Havok engine takes advantage of the SPU's.
But even tough alot of multiplatform games also use Havok, I don't think I've ever had the same feeling on my PC, as when I were racing in a hurricane and crashing buildings and tunnels in Motorstorm: Apocalypse, or when I were running and shooting at falling enemies in the hotel wich collapsed with realistic falling furniture in gameplay in Uncharted 2, or just by watching the wind blow in dusty desert-level in Killzone 2.

The dust in the Killzone 2 level is just animated, it does not have physics.

The start of Portal 2 has you walking around in a room that is moving and falling apart (and later in the game you muck around with fluid that looks quite cool).

And the Motorstorm level is mostly scripted with a few hard body physics objects on the ground and with all the debris in the air fly around being nothing more than animated sprites. Split Second Velocity is very similar.

 

[assurdum]

The dust in the Killzone 2 level is just animated, it does not have physics.

The start of Portal 2 has you walking around in a room that is moving and falling apart (and later in the game you muck around with fluid that looks quite cool).

And the Motorstorm level is mostly scripted with a few hard body physics objects on the ground and with all the debris in the air fly around being nothing more than animated sprites. Split Second Velocity is very similar.

Scripted not means exactly no physics.... what did you said about motorstorm engine isn't so 'trusty'...

 

[Arwin]

While there are certainly some stuff being scripted in MotorStorm, the collision between objects and the environment, including the 100 of objects cars can fall apart into, certainly isn't scripted. There's some heavy physics going on in that game ever since the first one.

 

[TheD]

Scripted not means exactly no physics.... what did you said about motorstorm engine isn't so 'trusty'...

Scripted as in the buildings falling down not being an effect of the wind and even when the do fall down it look like a pre canned animation (kind of pointless to do it the other way TBH).

Nothing that Split Second does not do.

While there are certainly some stuff being scripted in MotorStorm, the collision between objects and the environment, including the 100 of objects cars can fall apart into, certainly isn't scripted. There's some heavy physics going on in that game ever since the first one.

The parts of the car that can fall off are not being calculated all the time and the objects that you can knock into the air with your car are spaced out so that only a few are active at any one time.

 

[assurdum]

]Scripted as in the buildings falling down not being an effect of the wind and even when the do fall down it look like a pre canned animation (kind of pointless to do it the other way TBH).[/B]

Nothing that Split Second does not do.



The parts of the car that can fall off are not being calculated all the time and the objects that you can knock into the air with your car are spaced out so that only a few are active at any one time.

I remember to have read something about Motorstorm Apocalypse development (maybe on EG special); I remember the developer talked of notable quantity of physics, dynamic level, procedural variables, 'thanks' to the SPU etc etc; I can't said more precisely, tech wise, but based to what you talking of MT physic spec? You just suppose or...? Because in the last claims of the developers I'm pretty sure to otherwise ...

 

[joker454]

Saying "thanks to spu" doesn't mean anything really. Remember the ps3 only has one core, so everything, even boring mundane physics will have to use spu. They may as well say "thanks to electrons", it would be just as relevant.

 

[assurdum]

Saying "thanks to spu" doesn't mean anything really. Remember the ps3 only has one core, so everything, even boring mundane physics will have to use spu. They may as well say "thanks to electrons", it would be just as relevant.

Probably the whole claim had a more logic & complete explanation, but I just reported what I remember. They mentioned something about Cell & physics advantages, I just rewrited in long lines their claims..