Wii U hardware discussion and investigation *rename

[liolio]

From Here

6450 Specs

Not sure what your point is, it is pretty clear that the hd 6450 are as far as power house as can be.
Still I'll let you make the calculation about the difference in pixel rendered between 1280x1024 and 880x720p. there is a massive difference( a tad more than a power of 2), I wonder how "well" the suckiest" GPU AMD sells perform at that setting.
Anyway that has nothing to do with Nintendo design choices, whatever its merits or lacking the hd6450 doesn't have what it takes to power the extra screen.

 

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[N_B]

T
Generally the system is designed around the 32 megs of edram,so example a hell lot of particle effect can be used for free on the gpu.Big difference,and requiring different game design.

Games are certainly using the eDRAM already, and yet struggling with transparencies. It won't be something devs have to get used to using either.

 

[ERP]

Hops,the time gap between the xb360 and the WII u is the same like between the Voodoo 2 and the xb360

Sure, but the changes have been very incremental, few people write shaders in assembler anymore, it's all HLSL or equivalent, divergence in shaders still kills you.
Yes the later shaders are more efficient, you can do things you couldn't do circa XB360, but it's hardly the same leap.

I think the next adjustment to be made (other than the production issues) is going to be utilizing relatively large ALU counts effectively. If you look at modern PC games they grossly underutilize the computational power of the higher end GPU's.

I just don't think we're going to discover that the WiiU GPU has vast GPU resources sitting idle.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

The gap may be big in years but it isn't as much in technology. Especially because the Wii is probably not using the most advanced tech available.

Particle effects have no effect on game design usually.

 

[AzaK]

Anyone: Are there any WiiU games that show signs of tearing (DF article on Mass Effect 3 doesn't mention it, but does show some solid 20 fps areas in the analysis)? If not, it maybe Nintendo haven't made soft vsync available to developers. If so, allowing that might allow the WiiU to avoid some of its most grievous frame rate plunges.

Yes DarkSiders 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5nha4XiXnSg#t=55s

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The time gap between the WII U shaders and the XB360 shaders as big as between the WOODOO Banshee and the xb360.

In addition to ERP and Laa-Yosh, many PS360 games have PC ports where the GPUs being targeted are plenty up-to-date.

Generally the system is designed around the 32 megs of edram,so example a hell lot of particle effect can be used for free on the gpu.Big difference,and requiring different game design.

That's an assumption that's dependent on the unknown eDRAM BW. PS2 had effectively 'unlimited' BW with 48 GB/s and an SD screen. At 3x the resolution, Wuu's eDRAM is effectively one third PS2's, so at 45 GB/s in Wuu, that'd be equivalent to PS2 having 15 GBs.

So yeah,the WII U can do more,but for that they have to design the game for specialy that platform.

We don't know that beyond more advanced shaders. The eDRAM may only be just enough to make up for the weak system bandwidth - a design focussed on cheapness rather than performance.

And at the end of the day the WII U is the fastest tablet on the market, with Blue ray support,and with full gamepad

It's also the lowest resolution tablet on the market, maybe the only one without multitouch, with the worst battery life and worst portability, and without BluRay support (Wuu doesn't play any media, so you can't stream from your NAS, etc.). Wuu is a games console; not a tablet.

So the kid want a WII U instead of the ipad, to play with it anywhere in the house.[/QUOTE]

 

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[XpiderMX]

Yeah,it is a console, but with table like portability.

Wii U gamepad is not "portable", not as a real tablet (iPad) or portable console (3DS).

 

[MrFox]

Possible with the ps360?not.

Well, anything devs can do with the WiiU, can be ported to Vita+PS3

 

[Boxercide]

Great, half gig can't be used for assets,only for caching,and there is lagging due to load?
So they are lazy bastards,or hadn't have enough time to port the game.

Ahhh yes, they are lazy because the Wuu does not perform like you think it should.

That answer makes the most sense.

 

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[Boxercide]

Sight repeat: in the WII there is 500-700 MB memory, that can't be used for anything else only as disc cache in the case of this port.
And the game has longer loading time than the xb360.
Get it?
I try to explain by simple worlds:
WII U has 1 gig of app memory, XB360 has 512 megs memory.
From the WIIU 1 gig only 400-500 can be used for assets,the remaining disc cache,from the xb360 512 megs, the remaining 0 is disc cache.

And the game load faster on the xb.
Hope it helps.

Sigh. No it does not help because you are speaking out of your ass, as many here have repeatedly tried to tell you. You don't know what you are talking about.

This is a forum for actual tech talk, and this specific thread is looking at the GPU performance. You are not adding to the discussion by throwing out random unconfirmed tidbits you've picked up around the net.

Then you try to put together straw man, smart alecky responses about how the Wuu is a great tablet, etc.

Just stop. You don't know the system works. You are being a fanboy.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't get your point.
And so?Example the Skyrim assets /engine has been created for three different platform ,and probably the PC version run smoothly and look better than the others,but it is only minor tweak,and not a full usage of the (PC) platform.

So because one developer didn't make the best use of PC, you think 3rd party developers in general are clueless how to use DX10 and 11 features and are approaching Wuu effectively from scratch?

1040 line mean roughly 15 GB memory, on the PS2 480 mean 2.5 megs(I can't remember,but presume the frame buffer can be moved out to the main memory).

I have no idea what you're saying here. how do you know Wuu is a bandwidth monster will effectively unlimited BW for particles etc.?

Mate, they focused to make money from day one,and not to make product with high failure rate.

Right. So there's very good chance the eDRAM isn't there to provide graphical power relative to the competition, but to get similar performance from a cheaper box with better margins.

Yeah,it is a console, but with table like portability.
I don't want to read on it, or doing anything else than to play on it,next to my daughter with same silent hill type game.Possible with the ps360?not.

So why relate the product to a tablet?

 

[Kaotik]

Well, anything devs can do with the WiiU, can be ported to Vita+PS3

No, it can't, PS3 features basic DX9 chip and Cell has it's limits, WiiU has more advanced GPU even if we ignore the speed which is still unknown

 

[MrFox]

No, it can't, PS3 features basic DX9 chip and Cell has it's limits, WiiU has more advanced GPU even if we ignore the speed which is still unknown

The context of the question was whether it was "possible" to do that kind of game. There's nothing that specifically makes it impossible to do, unlike the Wii which, at the time, allowed games impossible on other consoles.

 

[Blazkowicz]

Well, anything devs can do with the WiiU, can be ported to Vita+PS3

But I doubt many people have both a Vita and a PS3 and are aware of that thing and willing to run it. Console add-ons never work, and using two different consoles together shouldn't work better, i.e. I'm not sure developers are willing to spend time and money developing something for about 4% of the market (a number I've made up)

Well, there was one Zelda game with Game Cube + GBA, and that's it. (as far as anyone can know about)

Also WiiU and tablet have a dedicated 5.5GHz wifi link I believe, which is wide spectrum, little used, less interference from neighbors (it doesn't go easily through walls), dunno what you use with your Vita.

 

[XpiderMX]

No, it can't, PS3 features basic DX9 chip and Cell has it's limits, WiiU has more advanced GPU even if we ignore the speed which is still unknown

Nor the "more advanced GPU" part is known yet.