Wii U hardware discussion and investigation *rename

[nightside]

I'm sure Nintendo aren't keeping the specs a secret from developers. And TBH I reckon specs are about the last thing developers will care about, unless you can boast about them and prove you have something of worth to attract the hardcore gamers. A dev I was speaking with the other day was telling me no-one they knew was developing for Vita as they don't see a market there, despite its awesome specs. Nintendo needs to convince devs that they can develop for Wuu economically and will have a large, game-buying install base to buy games. I don't see that that'll be facilitated by telling the world how uninspired their hardware is.

quite frankly sounds like wii all over again.

there will be a market for sure. but a market for what? i'm kinda worried that wii u will be seen (again) as tier C when it comes to (big) multiplatform titles, but i guess the main point will be how wii u will handle ports down from sony and ms consoles,

 

[lwill]

quite frankly sounds like wii all over again.

there will be a market for sure. but a market for what? i'm kinda worried that wii u will be seen (again) as tier C when it comes to (big) multiplatform titles, but i guess the main point will be how wii u will handle ports down from sony and ms consoles,

It seems that your last statement is something that Nintendo took into consideration; more than most would have expected. If the info from Prophecy2k is true, the Wii U was not optimally designed to run and improve on current-gen ports. Xbox 360 and especially the PS3 had heavier use of the CPU than what the Wii U was truly designed for. Some of the tasks will now be giving to the GPU, which is what the other next-gen consoles will be doing as well due to their GPU's GCN architecture. In other words, the Wii U may have been designed to handle "downported" next-gen games better than porting over current-gen engines.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I'm sure Nintendo aren't keeping the specs a secret from developers. And TBH I reckon specs are about the last thing developers will care about, unless you can boast about them and prove you have something of worth to attract the hardcore gamers. A dev I was speaking with the other day was telling me no-one they knew was developing for Vita as they don't see a market there, despite its awesome specs. Nintendo needs to convince devs that they can develop for Wuu economically and will have a large, game-buying install base to buy games. I don't see that that'll be facilitated by telling the world how uninspired their hardware is.

The Wii has a much larger user base than X360 or PS3.
How many of them are developing for the Wii?
Why did they stop developing for the Wii, or why didn't they ever develop for the Wii?


Probably, it's because they couldn't make good-looking games for the Wii, because the Wii's hardware is subpar.
Because good-looking games sell, no matter how people like to underestimate specs. The Wii made Nintendo lots of money until 2009. Until then, it's a downward spiral of losses and absent mindshare.

And that's also a possible reason for them to not ever support the Wii U. Because it won't be able to do graphics as pretty/realistic as PS4/Durango.


Nintendo's "1,5xLast Gen" technique worked great because they were tapping on to a new market: the casuals.
But all those have their Wiis gathering dust for years and have moved on to ipads, iphones, androids, facebook games, kinect/move, etc. That market isn't untapped for them anymore.


Besides, do you have any doubts that if Nintendo had shown some "4x faster than Xenos" GPU market-specs along with a Samaritan-like real-time tech demo, even with the exact same game lineup, that their shares wouldn't have risen instead of falling?
The fact that they won't say what's inside the console is making everyone believe it's not more powerfull than the other two consoles and that's costing them lots and lots of money on credit.

 

[steviep]

Nintendo's "1,5xLast Gen" technique worked great because they were tapping on to a new market: the everyones.

Fixed that up for you. A tie ratio of approximately the same as the other consoles (which, in turn, means it sold more software) would suggest that its demographics were a bit wider than your original assertion. That third parties threw their feces (which, in many cases, funded the HD development) and used their low-budget D teams to do so is one of the primary reasons the console ran out of steam. The other being the platform holder transitioning its own development teams for the most part.

 

[Grall]

I'm sure Nintendo aren't keeping the specs a secret from developers.

It wasn't my intent to insinuate they keep the specs secret from devs, but rather that you need to make specs sufficiently high so that devs can port their games without having to re-build the game's code and graphics from the ground up for your console - thus essentially making it a brand new title that can only run on one set of hardware.

I don't see that that'll be facilitated by telling the world how uninspired their hardware is.

If that is the case, Nintendo was in other words just bullshitting when they said how important 3rd party devs were to them this time round. My stance would thus be that you shouldn't make uninspired hardware, but rather keep it at least somewhat inspired.

 

[forumaccount]

Pretty sure that FXAA is done on Xenos and I have not read about any other effects being done on 360 CPU.

Yes, FXAA is GPU, which is the entire appeal in the first place.

Skinning is sometimes done on SPU for PS3. GPU skinning makes more sense for Xbox and WiiU.

 

[Ika]

Probably, it's because they couldn't make good-looking games for the Wii, because the Wii's hardware is subpar.
Because good-looking games sell, no matter how people like to underestimate specs. The Wii made Nintendo lots of money until 2009. Until then, it's a downward spiral of losses and absent mindshare.

I strongly disagree that only the look alone would be enough for a massive success. I admit that there is an exception sometimes (e.g.: or overpaid marketing hype, or games for the COD players, but those were never a target audience for Nintendo), but 90% of the times you need much more than nice graphics nowadays.
I'm not saying that visuals are not important when you compare systems, but only in a way like when you say, NHL, NBA 2012 looks much better on this system than on the other one.. that's the kind of comparison what can alter sales noticeably.

People go for the games and not for the systems, and exclusives and franchises are the main driving force in the console industry and not good graphics. When I think about Nintendo, I want to play Zelda or Metroid or Mario, because those are the games I have beautiful memories about, just like how I love Sony because of God of War or Grand Turismo (etc) and not because of the graphics they had.

..........if Nintendo had shown some..........

using "if" when it's about the past doesn't make much sense imo
Nintendo is notoriously planning their global business strategy based on the Japanese market, which is - indeed - a very risky thing to do, and I also think that coming out with Wii-U in this E3 was a mistake.

 

[XpiderMX]

People go for the games and not for the systems, and exclusives and franchises are the main driving force in the console industry and not good graphics. When I think about Nintendo, I want to play Zelda or Metroid or Mario, because those are the games I have beautiful memories about, just like how I love Sony because of God of War or Grand Turismo (etc) and not because of the graphics they had.

It really sound like the same speech than Wii era.

What about people who not like Nintendo franchises?
What about Xbox 3/PS4 third party games?

 

[Kaotik]

It really sound like the same speech than Wii era.

What about people who not like Nintendo franchises?
What about Xbox 3/PS4 third party games?

What about people who don't like Sony/MS franchises?
What about Wii U third party games?

It goes both ways, and Wii apparently still holds quite solid lead over XB360/PS3 on consoles sold level, even if XB360/PS3 owners usually spend more money on games per user.

Seriously though, people are really damn pessimistic when it comes to Nintendo solely because of Wii wasn't such a huge jump over GC as XB360/PS3 were over XB/PS2, we don't know squat about it's real performance on final hardware yet, or even what hardware it uses besides that it has IBM built CPU and AMD built GPU, we have strong rumors on some things, but they don't really tell anything about performance yet.

 

[Ika]

It really sound like the same speech than Wii era.

What about people who not like Nintendo franchises?
What about Xbox 3/PS4 third party games?

As I said, they are notoriously planning their console strategy based on the Japanese market, which (obviously) doesn't really works like it did in times when they only had SEGA as the main competitor. It's not a surprise that third party developers do not find them attractive outside Japan if they show games like what they had on this E3.
If you look at the sales of Nintendo, almost all of their best sellers were first party, and while MS sells lots of successful third party games as well, they still nowhere near to the sale numbers what Nintendo has.
I don't think that they can compete with monsters like Microsoft anymore, and they know that since the XBOX1 imo. They altered course and target the Wii-Sport audience and their kids or the fans of the exclusives, and - next to that - they have Nintendo of America there who tries to catch as many third or first party devs as they can.

I really hope they come out strong with the Wii-U, and not only because the more competition there is, the better for the players, but because they gave the industry so many awesome inventions both on the hardware and on the gameplay mechanics side, that it would be a horrible to lose them. I still miss SEGA from the hardware market, I don't want to lose Nintendo

 

[XpiderMX]

What about people who don't like Sony/MS franchises?
What about Wii U third party games?

I´m talking about PS4/720 third party games. How can you ensure those games will be on Wii U?

It goes both ways, and Wii apparently still holds quite solid lead over XB360/PS3 on consoles sold level, even if XB360/PS3 owners usually spend more money on games per user.

Come on, Wii outsold PS360, yes, but how many PS360 third party games are on Wii?

Seriously though, people are really damn pessimistic when it comes to Nintendo solely because of Wii wasn't such a huge jump over GC as XB360/PS3 were over XB/PS2, we don't know squat about it's real performance on final hardware yet, or even what hardware it uses besides that it has IBM built CPU and AMD built GPU, we have strong rumors on some things, but they don't really tell anything about performance yet.

What I saw from E3 is not very encouraging. When Xbox 360 was shown at 2005, it showed a real jump over 128bit games, I can't say the same for Wii U games, even exclusive games.

I really hope they come out strong with the Wii-U, and not only because the more competition there is, the better for the players, but because they gave the industry so many awesome inventions both on the hardware and on the gameplay mechanics side, that it would be a horrible to lose them. I still miss SEGA from the hardware market, I don't want to lose Nintendo

I dont want a Nintendo fail, but what they showed at E3 don't look too promising (for me). And I'm talking about all games, even first party games.

 

[Ika]

I dont want a Nintendo fail, but what they showed at E3 don't look too promising (for me). And I'm talking about all games, even first party games.

That's what I'm talking about, most of the games they showed will probably sell very good in Japan, but only there, and the rest of it didn't look better than what you can already have on the PS360. They were simply not ready, and coming out with the Wii-U without the big titles was a bad idea imho.

Perhaps the final system will be much stronger than what we saw, but I still wonder how can they come up with something on that system which looks 2-3 times better than "Last of us" or the other neat looking games.

 

[kagemaru]

What I saw from E3 is not very encouraging. When Xbox 360 was shown at 2005, it showed a real jump over 128bit games, I can't say the same for Wii U games, even exclusive games.

I'm sorry but I had a good laugh at that 128bit part, it's been a long time since I've seen anyone use that reference.

Anyways, from what I read, all the Wii-U exclusives shown originally started on current or last gen hardware. So that could be a good reason why you're not noticing any immediate leap.

 

[XpiderMX]

I'm sorry but I had a good laugh at that 128bit part, it's been a long time since I've seen anyone use that reference.

Sorry for the "128bits" reference, last gen was the last with "bits" in mind for me xD.

Anyways, from what I read, all the Wii-U exclusives shown originally started on current or last gen hardware. So that could be a good reason why you're not noticing any immediate leap.

But what about the last year bird and zelda demo? they look very good, a step ahead current gen.

 

[lwill]

Sorry for the "128bits" reference, last gen was the last with "bits" in mind for me xD.



But what about the last year bird and zelda demo? they look very good, a step ahead current gen.

Both of them were built around Wii U's incomplete hardware, unlike other games like Pikmin and third-party ports.

 

[Kaotik]

I´m talking about PS4/720 third party games. How can you ensure those games will be on Wii U?

And how can you ensure Wii U 3rd party games will be on PS4/XB720?

Come on, Wii outsold PS360, yes, but how many PS360 third party games are on Wii?

And how many Wii 3rd party games are on PS360?
Like I said, it goes both ways, PS360 and PS4/720 will definitely have 3rd party games which won't appear on Wii U, just as Wii U will definitely have 3rd party games which won't appear on PS4/720 (or PS360 for that matter).
It's a matter of choice which you like more, and which 1st party IPs you like more.

But what about the last year bird and zelda demo? they look very good, a step ahead current gen.

Because they're demos made by Nintendo specificly on Wii U hardware only (even though not on final hardware), unlike apparently the games development that started on Wii-hardare first.

 

[steviep]

It goes both ways, and Wii apparently still holds quite solid lead over XB360/PS3 on consoles sold level, even if XB360/PS3 owners usually spend more money on games per user.

Not true. The tie ratios are all basically within <1 game of eachother on all 3 consoles (I believe 2 of the consoles have an 8.5 ratio, and one 9.2).

I don't think that they can compete with monsters like Microsoft anymore, and they know that since the XBOX1 imo. They altered course and target the Wii-Sport audience and their kids

This is extremely ironic, considering Microsoft's focus shift both recently and for next gen.

 

[XpiderMX]

And how can you ensure Wii U 3rd party games will be on PS4/XB720?

And how many Wii 3rd party games are on PS360?
Like I said, it goes both ways, PS360 and PS4/720 will definitely have 3rd party games which won't appear on Wii U, just as Wii U will definitely have 3rd party games which won't appear on PS4/720 (or PS360 for that matter).
It's a matter of choice which you like more, and which 1st party IPs you like more.

Sorry but Wii third party support is not really as great as Xbox 360 and PS3 third party support.

Because they're demos made by Nintendo specificly on Wii U hardware only (even though not on final hardware), unlike apparently the games development that started on Wii-hardare first.

They made demos for Wii U hardware but they made games for Wii hardware? lol...

 

[Ika]

This is extremely ironic, considering Microsoft's focus shift both recently and for next gen.

I was talking about the core gamers... I meant it in a context of the conversation, and not generally. Sony and Nintendo were competing for the core gamers and MS simply took away Nintendo's share with their better looking titles in the Xbox1 while SONY was standing strong. Nintendo only had RE4 to counter (which was truly awesome indeed) but it was to little and way too late to undo the damage because of the nextgens .

 

[kagemaru]

But what about the last year bird and zelda demo? they look very good, a step ahead current gen.

There wasn't anything really impressive IMO about the Zelda demo. As for the bird demo, I could see that being done with current gen systems if they had more memory.

Besides it's one thing to produce a pretty tech demo and it's entirely different to produce a game.

ZombieU started with the 360 as the lead and Pikmon started on the Wii. Everything else that I remember was not pushing any boundaries or was a current gen port (Batman, AC3, etc).