Next-Gen iPhone & iPhone Nano Speculation

[Ailuros]

Nothing keeps Apple from clocking it higher than 250 Mhz but why not just retain the same performance target as the iPad 2?

Because it would be easier to market? It presupposes of course that they didn't intend to use a way smaller battery for instance in order to further reduce cost. The higher CPU/GPU frequency scenario would presuppose an at least equivalent battery as for iPad2.

Much easier for developers and they do not have to scale graphic performance with their 3D games.

I'm assuming that they'll be using the same 1024 resolution as on the first two iPads. Why would developers would have to scale performance if the GPU is theoretically by 30-40% faster? Between iPad2 and 3 there's not only the resolution difference, but also twice as high graphics performance.

Of course, they could throw a curve ball and introduce the iPad Mini with A6 or a 32 nm shrink of the A5X.

Out of the two case scenarios the first is of course likelier (A5X would still be huge under 32nm) and both would increase BOM quite a bit compared to any A5R2 scenario. Lower MSRP = lower BOM; while Apple is fully aware that a lower end tablet project like the mini is going to cut into their margins, I can't imagine them not wanting to yield for the best possible margin scenario for the mini.

Good to hear he listens to reason heh.

He always does; and for the record if he's in doubt he doesn't shy away to ask either.

 

[Pressure]

Tonights event is getting live-streamed to Apple TVs, if you want to follow it

 

[babybumb]

A6x announced. 2x GPU/CPU

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Apple is bringing a lot of stuff

 

[eastmen]

So the new new ipad is already announced. IF apple is going to push out these things out faster and fast i wonder if they will get push back from their fans.

 

[wishiknew]

Bummer, I would have been willing to pay more for a A6 powered ipad mini. Guess I'll have to wait till next year.

 

[tangey]

X2 graphics performance compared to ipad3 hmmm...can they really be using 543mp4@500mhz (ipad3 is 543mp4@250mhz), or have apple used 554 ?

Or maybe a mp6@325mhz

 

[Entropy]

A6x announced. 2x GPU/CPU

Well, we already know where the 2xCPU is coming from, except clock speed details.
But 2x Graphics? Not à given how that is achieved.

 

[wco81]

Well, so much for my 3-months old iPad 3.

The price on the Mini though isn't going to be received well, though they did demonstrate that despite the lower-resolution than a Nexus 7, it shows more of the browser content than a "popular" 7-inch Android tablet, probably was the Nexus 7.

 

[Entropy]

Apples iPad page claims it is still quad core graphics. Hmm.

 

[phenix]

ipad mini should have been priced at $299.

 

[Entropy]

Well, so much for my 3-months old iPad 3.

The price on the Mini though isn't going to be received well, though they did demonstrate that despite the lower-resolution than a Nexus 7, it shows more of the browser content than a "popular" 7-inch Android tablet, probably was the Nexus 7.

I don't know. I'm surprised they didn't round the size to 8 inches, because you get close to the old size display in a MUCH smaller package, while still retaining the battery life. It's a better product than the iPad2 for anyone who doesn't need the somewhat larger screen.

So the value is there, it simply doesn't bring much new to the table other than the form factor. Of course, the form factor is a big deal.

In order to be interesting to me, it would have needed a retina display, but including that and the horsepower to drive it would probably have hit the battery life a bit too hard. Advances in lithography and backlighting technology will take care of that, in a couple of years. (As an aside, the asymmetric battery tech they have in the 13" MacBook Pro is a very nice first).

 

[tangey]

X2 graphics performance compared to ipad3 hmmm...can they really be using 543mp4@500mhz (ipad3 is 543mp4@250mhz), or have apple used 554 ?

Or maybe a mp6@325mhz

I just noted that they stated x2 for the CPU.

This is the same increase as the iphone5 got. To get it on the iphone5 they clocked the new A6 @1.3ghz, against the iphone4s' 800mhz, a clock increase of x1.625.
Ipad3 clocks its CPU @1ghz. To get the same performance increase, then the ipad4 would need to be clocked @ 1.6ghz.

On every iPhone and iPad for the last 2 years, apple have clocked the gpu at exactly 1/4 of the CPU. Assuming they keep to the same approach, then gpu would be clocking @ 400mhz. To get double gpu performance with a 400mhz clock, you would need an mp5@400mhz.

So I'm going to go with 1.6ghz for the CPU, and using 543mp5@400mhz.

Sounds like a strange combo, but then so did an 543mp3 until we saw it in the iphone5.

Just saw that the website is comfirming quad graphics. So looks like mp4@500mhz, which would mean the CPU/gpu ratio must have change from the usual 1/4.

 

[Entropy]

Just saw that the website is comfirming quad graphics. So looks like mp4@500mhz, which would mean the CPU/gpu ratio must have change from the usual 1/4.

1/3 would be an option I guess. I don't think we should assume that the 2x speed up is more precise with the GPU than with the CPU. 543MP4 is not necessarily a given, they might have changed cores. Also, a 2x speedup in graphics pretty much implies that the memory subsystem hasn't been untouched (otherwise the on chip GPU resources must have increased even more to justify an overall 2x description, and that strains credibility). LPDDR3 making its debut? 554MP4?

 

[ltcommander.data]

I just noted that they stated x2 for the CPU.

This is the same increase as the iphone5 got. To get it on the iphone5 they clocked the new A6 @1.3ghz, against the iphone4s' 800mhz, a clock increase of x1.625.
Ipad3 clocks its CPU @1ghz. To get the same performance increase, then the ipad4 would need to be clocked @ 1.6ghz.

On every iPhone and iPad for the last 2 years, apple have clocked the gpu at exactly 1/4 of the CPU. Assuming they keep to the same approach, then gpu would be clocking @ 400mhz. To get double gpu performance with a 400mhz clock, you would need an mp5@400mhz.

So I'm going to go with 1.6ghz for the CPU, and using 543mp5@400mhz.

Sounds like a strange combo, but then so did an 543mp3 until we saw it in the iphone5.

Just saw that the website is comfirming quad graphics. So looks like mp4@500mhz, which would mean the CPU/gpu ratio must have change from the usual 1/4.

Well since linear scaling from the iPhone 5 leads to 1.625GHz for a 2x CPU clock speed maybe Apple is just under-reporting the CPU speedup and over-reporting the GPU speedup. Say 1.8GHz for the dual core CPU and 450MHz for the SGX543MP4 GPU.

1/3 would be an option I guess. I don't think we should assume that the 2x speed up is more precise with the GPU than with the CPU. 543MP4 is not necessarily a given, they might have changed cores. Also, a 2x speedup in graphics pretty much implies that the memory subsystem hasn't been untouched (otherwise the on chip GPU resources must have increased even more to justify an overall 2x description, and that strains credibility). LPDDR3 making its debut? 554MP4?

Well the A6 gained LPDDR2-1066 moving from LPDDR2-800 on the A5. Combined with the memory controller improvements, maybe that is enough.

It seems a little expensive to put the effort into a one off implementation of the SGX554 with the next SoCs no doubt using Rogue. Going SGX554 also wouldn't increase fill rate which only increased 2x from the iPad 2 to iPad 3 so is still at a deficit.

 

[Ailuros]

Well it's definitely not a Rogue GPU in that one IMHO. Twice the iPad3 GPU performance and quad core, smells suspiciously like Series5XT; not that I didn't expect it to be honest.

 

[ltcommander.data]

Well it's definitely not a Rogue GPU in that one IMHO. Twice the iPad3 GPU performance and quad core, smells suspiciously like Series5XT; not that I didn't expect it to be honest.

Oh, I didn't mean the A6X uses Rogue. I meant that with the Rogue no doubt coming in the A7, it's a waste to put the effort in a one off SGX554MP for the A6X, especially when it doesn't address the fill rate issue. I think the GPU remains a SGX543MP.

 

[Ailuros]

Oh, I didn't mean the A6X uses Rogue. I meant that with the Rogue no doubt coming in the A7, it's a waste to put the effort in a one off SGX554MP for the A6X, especially when it doesn't address the fill rate issue. I think the GPU remains a SGX543MP.

I didn't reply to your former post specifically otherwise I would had quoted you. I don't think the iPad3 lacklusters in fillrate even for its 2048 display, but rather in general GPU processing power. A hypothetical 554MP4@250MHz would double arithmetic throughput compared to the 543MP4@250MHz in the iPad3, yet all other factors like geometry throughput, texel & pixel fillrates amongst others would most likely remain the same. On paper and for a twisted marketing trick Apple could quote for a quad 554 2x times GPU performance, but not in average real time GPU performance.

A quad cluster Rogue on the other hand as implied/suggested in general sounds like nonsense to me, since it would be times more than just 2x times performance increase compared to A5X. If Apple's future Rogue variant is on A9600 level I'd rather suggest 3x times graphics performance over A6X or roughly 5x times over A5X.

 

[Mike11]

So, what does this mean for the 9.7" iPad?

1) Apple moved the yearly release cylce to the fall
2) just an additional one-off mid-cycle update, mainly because of Lightning and international LTE
3) a new iPad every 6 months for the foreseeable future

And if there's a new iPad in March/April, will the SoC stay the same and "just" some other components get an update (alternating updates to the internal/external stuff)?

 

[ltcommander.data]

So, what does this mean for the 9.7" iPad?

1) Apple moved the yearly release cylce to the fall
2) just an additional one-off mid-cycle update, mainly because of Lightning and international LTE
3) a new iPad every 6 months for the forseeable future

And if there's a new iPad in March/April, will the SoC stay the same and "just" some other components get an update (alternating updates to the internal/external stuff)?

If Rogue isn't available until mid-2013 for the A7, then this October/November refresh is a good halfway point between the March 2012 iPad 3 release and a June 2013 WWDC iPad 5 release. Then they may go back to March in 2014 for the iPad 6 where they will have the option of continuing a ~9 month refresh cycle or moving back to a 1 year cycle.

The iPad Mini will presumably keep a 1 year refresh cycle in the Fall.