Nintendo Conference

[function]

Re: powerheatsumption

Here's a Wii take-apart and picture of the heatsink:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-Nintendo-Wii-Heat-Sink/3458/12

The Weeyoo is only slightly higher and wider than a Wii, but a bit deeper. Anyone got a link to dimensions? It'd be useful at this point - Google is not being my friend at this point. Anyway, I think the extra depth may be to house a bigger heatsink, in which case it'll probably draw more power, but probably not all that much more than a Wii.

The questions I'm left pondering are:

1) how much bigger can the heatsink be
2) what kind of heatsink is it likely to be
3) will it still use a 4cm case fan, or something else?

We can possibly calculate the first based on case dimensions, we can guess at the second based on cost (aluminium fins or aluminium fins with a heatpipe is my guess) and we can determine the third based on pictures of the top and back of the case displayed (if it's a final case and not a cooling-less mockup).

If anyone can contribute on this it'd be cool because it's new console time and I'm all excited like.

 

[obonicus]

The Weeyoo is only slightly higher and wider than a Wii, but a bit deeper. Anyone got a link to dimensions?

From the other WiiU thread: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1557543&postcount=897

Corroborated by this NeoGAF summary: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28376503&postcount=1

 

[function]

Thanks!

So if the new optical drive were to be the same length as the old one, they could potentially more than double the size of the heatsink (depending on what else is in there), and could have the room to embed a 360 S style top-down fan or two in the heatsink. This would get around the problem of only having room for a 4cm-ish rear exhaust fan located between all the various ports at the back. You might even be able to wrap a heatpipe around the fan perimeter(s).

This is a probably a best case way of looking at things, and I fully expect to be disappointed!

Spoiler

4 cm exhaust fan and small aluminium fins it is.

 

[Grall]

they could potentially more than double the size of the heatsink (depending on what else is in there), and could have the room to embed a 360 S style top-down fan or two in the heatsink.

The WiiU has, from what we've seen, a large air vent on its left side of the unit, a few small slits on the top side, and another large vent at the rear. There probably isn't any vents on the bottom of the unit, due to the presence of the PCB inside, which would cover any openings.

I'm sure there won't be a 360S-style top-down fansink, or the large vent would sit on the top of the unit instead of on the side. I'll expect a very straight-forward, functional cooling solution like in all of Nintendo's recent consoles. Gamecube had a very simple yet effective cross-flow cooler that handled the 40ish watt heat load of the console beautifully despite a very weak, and in fact almost entirely silent fan. Wii's cooler was slightly more convoluted, there wasn't room for the same cross-flow setup, but it was still very similar in function even though the air-path wasn't as straight. Nintendo likes the KISS principle. I'm sure we won't see any heatpipes wrapped around fans or anything otherwise complicated or expensive like the original crazy PS3 cooler for example.

They'll use one single extruded aluminium sink if at all possible I'm sure. If not, possibly a thin-fin vapor chamber cooler since AMD has experience with those in their Radeon line.

 

[Richard]

This thread is balooning quickly. Could someone give me a quick recap or tell me if I read wrong wrt graphics capabilities? It supports 1080p, graphics shown on par on PS360. Is this right?

If so, when you guys say it's on par with PS360 does that include resolution?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This thread is balooning quickly. Could someone give me a quick recap or tell me if I read wrong wrt graphics capabilities? It supports 1080p, graphics shown on par on PS360. Is this right?

If so, when you guys say it's on par with PS360 does that include resolution?

Stuff shown so far has mostly been 720p AFAIK (though not following closely) and lacking AA. I don't think we're seeing the same graphics rendered at 1080p or with higher IQ, although it's early days for the software, and Nintendo's developers have hardly been in the thick of modern hardware to know how to use it all!

 

[Grall]

Graphics SHOWN on par with PS360 yes except running at full (rather than upscaled) 1080P, plus simultaneously rendered secondary display on the pad controller thingy.

Actual hardware performance undisclosed and possibly superior to PS360; it just looks the same for now due to some footage actually BEING from PS360 versions, and the early state of development of software. The hardware itself actually seems to be finalized, as nobody's reported of any more-or-less hidden cables running from demo units to some booth stacked full of other hardware, as certain manufacturers have sometimes done in previous console unveils.

 

[obonicus]

Graphics SHOWN on par with PS360 yes except running at full (rather than upscaled) 1080P, plus simultaneously rendered secondary display on the pad controller thingy.

Have we seen this for any real games? The Zelda and bird demo were 720p, the other footage was for PS360 games. What have we seen at 1080p?

Not to mention that if you want to mince words, technically the PS3 supports games at native 1080p (with a handful of titles to prove it!), except we know that no, not really.

 

[patsu]

This time round, Nintendo may give more air time to third party developers. The 1080p demoes would be more impressive if it comes from them using existing and familiar games (CoD !). Let's see it !

 

[Richard]

Thanks guys. Early days then.

 

[obonicus]

This time round, Nintendo may give more air time to third party developers. So the 1080p demoes would be more impressive if it comes from them using existing and familiar games (CoD !). Let's see it !

Hah, CoD at 720p would also be significant. But yeah, that'd fulfill the hope that the WiiU would deliver the same games as PS360, but considerably improved.

I'm not sure if that's a very realistic hope, though, even if the machine is significantly more powerful. Recall how many times joker has told us that very often devs are encouraged to strive for parity across systems, as having versions seen as significantly inferior is terrible for PR. That's not even taking into account whether it's even worth it for a developer to put in the extra effort for a WiiU version. Of course, I'd guess that much of this is assuaged by direct Nintendo encouragement (meaning that Nintendo should be prepared to cut deals to get those improved versions people expect).

 

[dobwal]

Hah, CoD at 720p would also be significant. But yeah, that'd fulfill the hope that the WiiU would deliver the same games as PS360, but considerably improved.

I'm not sure if that's a very realistic hope, though, even if the machine is significantly more powerful. Recall how many times joker has told us that very often devs are encouraged to strive for parity across systems, as having versions seen as significantly inferior is terrible for PR. That's not even taking into account whether it's even worth it for a developer to put in the extra effort for a WiiU version. Of course, I'd guess that much of this is assuaged by direct Nintendo encouragement (meaning that Nintendo should be prepared to cut deals to get those improved versions people expect).

I doubt it. Nintendo is the least friendly of the big three when it comes to third party publishers. And given the vast majority its userbase aren't really core users, I doubt Nintendo will pay for a slight upgrade in graphics.

All Nintendo needs to do is market perceived parity on the visual front. Its bread and butter will revolve around people buying into its new screen controller. Bascially its "Come on over, you still get to play the new COD over here in all its glory plus all these new things that Wii-U does that the 360 and PS3 doesn't".

 

[patsu]

Yeah... if they want to wade into the same hardcore gamers' sea, they may have to play the will & deal games.

EDIT: Realistically, what can gamers do ? It's a newer SKU, they _know_ it should be more powerful. ^_^

 

[function]

The WiiU has, from what we've seen, a large air vent on its left side of the unit, a few small slits on the top side, and another large vent at the rear. There probably isn't any vents on the bottom of the unit, due to the presence of the PCB inside, which would cover any openings.

That could mean a fan at the back and some intake over a heatpipe from the top and side, or a blower and output from the back and side, like a 6950.

I wasn't expecting either of these things though!

I'm sure there won't be a 360S-style top-down fansink, or the large vent would sit on the top of the unit instead of on the side. I'll expect a very straight-forward, functional cooling solution like in all of Nintendo's recent consoles. Gamecube had a very simple yet effective cross-flow cooler that handled the 40ish watt heat load of the console beautifully despite a very weak, and in fact almost entirely silent fan. Wii's cooler was slightly more convoluted, there wasn't room for the same cross-flow setup, but it was still very similar in function even though the air-path wasn't as straight. Nintendo likes the KISS principle. I'm sure we won't see any heatpipes wrapped around fans or anything otherwise complicated or expensive like the original crazy PS3 cooler for example.

I'd thought that the Gamecube was closer to the Wii in terms of power draw, being around 20-odd Watts or so in actual use. My GC was far from silent btw, that small fan was annoying but less so than one of my DCs and the early 360s I used.

I agree Nitnendo like it cheap and simple, but I'm looking for an upper bound at the moment. More than double the Wii's power draw is extremely unlikely IMO.

They'll use one single extruded aluminium sink if at all possible I'm sure. If not, possibly a thin-fin vapor chamber cooler since AMD has experience with those in their Radeon line.

Sega used heatpipes in 1998. MS in 2005. Sony in 2006. Can Nintendo hold out forever? I think they want to, and probably can. Dollar spent on fancy cooling would probably upset Nintendo deeply. They probably wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

 

[obonicus]

I doubt it. Nintendo is the least friendly of the big three when it comes to third party publishers. And given the vast majority its userbase aren't really core users, I doubt Nintendo will pay for a slight upgrade in graphics.

I doubt it too, but maybe they've learned. I'm just saying that they won't get them for free.

All Nintendo needs is market percieved parity on the visual front. Its bread and butter will revolve around people buying into its new screen controller. Bascially its "Come on over, you still get to play the new COD over here in all its glory plus all these new things that Wii-U does that the 360 and PS3 doesn't".

Oh, sure. That's the pitch to most people, and maybe it'll work. For enthusiasts (of whatever stripe) hoping to play much improved (graphically) versions of the games out on PS360, PC's probably a better option. (Now, maybe Nintendo's efforts will be ground-breaking, graphically, and really showcase the difference in power.)

 

[dobwal]

Yeah... if they want to wade into the same hardcore gamers' sea, they may have to play the will & deal games.

Yeah, if Nintendo does throw some money out there it will probably be used to ensure stronger incorporation of Wii-U's unique abilities.

 

[dobwal]

Oh, sure. That's the pitch to most people, and maybe it'll work. For enthusiasts (of whatever stripe) hoping to play much improved (graphically) versions of the games out on PS360, PC's probably a better option. (Now, maybe Nintendo's efforts will be ground-breaking, graphically, and really showcase the difference in power.)

You're right for the really hardcore visual enthusiasts, nothing will beat the PC. But there is also the segment of hardcore enthusiasts that are all things video game and they will pick up a Wii-U just because. But I don't see many where a slight visual uptick is going to make them abandon their PS360.

You'll probably have a better chance of encouraging them over with strong support of Wii-U unique features or paying for exclusives. Paying for a uptick in visual is wasted money to me.

 

[patsu]

The third party developers blame Nintendo for being too strict and their fans only buy Nintendo games ? Nintendo is fighting with the third party developers to differentiate from cheap gaming anyway. They should be on the same side and working together to defend their game price. ^_^

In-fighting between who's game looks better won't go anywhere. Just throw out your best work and let the consumers see the differences. This means even if Ninty's game looks better, so be it. The hardcore gamers know the box is newer and will appreciate it.

 

[nintenho]

Hah, CoD at 720p would also be significant. But yeah, that'd fulfill the hope that the WiiU would deliver the same games as PS360, but considerably improved.

I'm not sure if that's a very realistic hope, though, even if the machine is significantly more powerful. Recall how many times joker has told us that very often devs are encouraged to strive for parity across systems, as having versions seen as significantly inferior is terrible for PR. That's not even taking into account whether it's even worth it for a developer to put in the extra effort for a WiiU version. Of course, I'd guess that much of this is assuaged by direct Nintendo encouragement (meaning that Nintendo should be prepared to cut deals to get those improved versions people expect).

Well that makes sense when comparing those two consoles since they came out at the same time and are technically seen as more or less equal. WiiU is coming nearly 6 years after the PS360 so people expect more. Then again, all the ports they showed in the third-party reel could be like the N64-Dreamcast port of Episode1odracer where only the resolution gets an upgrade.

 

[dobwal]

The third party developers blame Nintendo for being too strict and their fans only buy Nintendo games?

More like third party publishers blame Nintendo for acting more like a publisher and less like a console manufacturer and treating them more like competitors and less like partners. It becoming clearer to me that Nintendo isn't like a MS or Sony who make consoles and support it with some of their own published software. Nintendo is more like an Activision or EA who happens to manufacture a console to push primarily their own software.

I doubt Nintendo will ever loosen it reigns under the circumstances where they are dominanting hardware sales. If it weren't for the PS1, pubs would probably still be paying massive amounts of money to Nintendo to manufacture carts with their software on it and still be limited to 8 games a year.

I wonder how much a 25Gb cart would cost these days? LOL.