Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[Blazkowicz]

Dreamcast's PowerVR2DC aka CLX2 graphics chip was a custom variant of PowerVR Series 2, it had 32x32 tile size (i think that's the term) than the Neon250 aka PMX1 PC version which was 16x32.

I believe the GPU has to be custom for at least one reason : include a realtime, low latency hardware video encoder. (well, blocks of still images with some high end compression)

one is sold on windows servers for the same use :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg607502(v=vs.85).aspx
it could be a separate chip but feels better at home on the GPU. and maybe they use hypertransport or PCIe 3.0 or something.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Kotaku is reporting on a report that states Devs are using "underclocked" dev kits.
http://kotaku.com/5812391/report-developers-working-with-underclocked-wii-u-hardware

That would explain the "50% more processing power" & "slightly above PS360" comments we've been hearing.

 

[RudeCurve]

No DVD or BR movie playback...

http://www.dailytech.com/Nintendo+Wii+U+No+DVD+or+Bluray+Playback+for+You+/article21910.htm

 

[hoho]

Anyway guys, back on-topic, take a look at this: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rumor/26828

The GPU is easily capable of driving tens of those remotes if you use low enough graphics. Question has always been how can you pump that data over the air at high enough bandwidth even for just one of them.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The GPU is easily capable of driving tens of those remotes if you use low enough graphics. Question has always been how can you pump that data over the air at high enough bandwidth even for just one of them.

I wonder if they're using the same connection for both input and output in the controller.

If they use something like WiFi N for sending the video+audio to the controller, and then bluetooth to send button+touchpad information, it might reduce the latency but it'd reduce the operating distance.

Nonetheless, if they use one 5GHz MIMO stream per controller (the protocol allows a maximum of 4), they'll get way more than enough bandwidth to send the video+audio data to 4 controllers.

I'm "scared" at the idea that Nintendo might be greedy enough to castrate the console's capabilities at such scale in order to save money on the wireless transmitter.

 

[Pressure]

I wonder if they're using the same connection for both input and output in the controller.

If they use something like WiFi N for sending the video+audio to the controller, and then bluetooth to send button+touchpad information, it might reduce the latency but it'd reduce the operating distance.

Nonetheless, if they use one 5GHz MIMO stream per controller (the protocol allows a maximum of 4), they'll get way more than enough bandwidth to send the video+audio data to 4 controllers.

I'm "scared" at the idea that Nintendo might be greedy enough to castrate the console's capabilities at such scale in order to save money on the wireless transmitter.

Have in mind that all tablets and phones so far are only using one spatial stream for reduced power usage, which means a single stream maxes out at around 65Mbit/s.

Although this should be plenty for A/V, just look at how well AirPlay works across the various Apple devices.

 

[pc999]

http://kotaku.com/5812391/report-developers-working-with-underclocked-wii-u-hardware

Developers have underclocked development kits, and worked hard to deliver titles running on that hardware to demonstrate live at E3.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Although this should be plenty for A/V...

Easily considering BluRay is running at 40 Mbps.

 

[hoho]

Easily considering BluRay is running at 40 Mbps.

Question is how well is the stream compressed and how well it works in an environment where other devices are also trying to use wifi signals. In my apartement I can see about 5-6 wifi networks, if I wasn't surrounded by retired persons it would be much more than that.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Question is how well is the stream compressed and how well it works in an environment where other devices are also trying to use wifi signals. In my apartement I can see about 5-6 wifi networks, if I wasn't surrounded by retired persons it would be much more than that.

WiFi N-5GHz has something like 20 available channels per region. Wouldn't there be a way for the console to evaluate which channels are being occupied and use only channels that are "free"?


Furthermore, wouldn't a single WiFi N channel would be more than enough to send a audio+video signal to 2 controllers?
That way, a single 3-antennae transmitter would suffice to dedicate one for the console's internet connection and the other two for the controllers.

http://kotaku.com/5812391/report-developers-working-with-underclocked-wii-u-hardware

Hum.. but which one is 50% faster? The underclocked version or the final one?

 

[wsippel]

Hum.. but which one is 50% faster? The underclocked version or the final one?

According to the same report, even with the underclocked devkits, multiplatform games looked better on WiiU, but the jump wasn't too big so Nintendo decided not to show them yet. I guess you'd already need 50% more power to produce anything even remotely noticeable.

Also some guy on NeoGAF claims that he has heard from developers that the devkits aren't really underclocked, but the current devkits overheat when pushed too far and freeze. The hardware itself is quite potent, but cooling is an issue right now.

 

[Pressure]

Easily considering BluRay is running at 40 Mbps.

On average a BluRay is more along 18Mbps.

The one scene I know that really pushes BluRay to the max is the bird scene from Planet Earth.

Remember we are only talking 960 x 540 or so for the controller, so I can hardly see 802.11n being the limiting factor.

 

[patsu]

Question is how well is the stream compressed and how well it works in an environment where other devices are also trying to use wifi signals. In my apartement I can see about 5-6 wifi networks, if I wasn't surrounded by retired persons it would be much more than that.

I think that's why Ninty marketing emphasized "same room streaming" only even though technically it can work from another room.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Also some guy on NeoGAF claims that he has heard from developers that the devkits aren't really underclocked, but the current devkits overheat when pushed too far and freeze. The hardware itself is quite potent, but cooling is an issue right now.

That doesn't seem very logical to me. I dont see nintendo shipping a devkit that essentially isnt working properly. It doesn't make sense. Either they will lower clocks to make it stable or they would put a big fan and heatsink on because it doesnt matter for a devkit anyway. But letting devs essentially guess to how far they can go without crashing seems kinda weird.

 

[Blazkowicz]

I think that's why Ninty marketing emphasized "same room streaming" only even though technically it can work from another room.

5GHz wifi has a harder time crossing walls and the like, which is a good thing in this case ; and we can imagine emitting power will be tuned so that it's just enough to work properly.

 

[hoho]

Talking about that 5GHz (potentially) multichannel Wifi, how much would adding it to wuu actually add to the cost vs using "normal" wifi?

 

[Blazkowicz]

it removes costs compared to 2.4GHz, i.e. angry customers, support nightmare and bad press.
imagine getting home and the spectrum is totally saturated by neighbors playing or browsing the web, or even by your own internet connection and someone using wifi in your own home.

I believe 2.4GHz can't work at all.

 

[hoho]

Perhaps it's true until 5GHz become more commonplace but I was interested in the rough estimate for the hardware costs.

 

[snarfbot]

theres some actual gameplay footage up on gametrailers of killer freaks.

[gt]716443[/gt]

[gt]716444[/gt]

it isnt exactly awe inspiring. the control scheme is kinda cool with the tablet controller though, you can pan it around the room and aim your viewport like that.

but ya the graphics are sort of disappointing.

 

[DeadlyNinja]

According to the same report, even with the underclocked devkits, multiplatform games looked better on WiiU, but the jump wasn't too big so Nintendo decided not to show them yet. I guess you'd already need 50% more power to produce anything even remotely noticeable.

Also some guy on NeoGAF claims that he has heard from developers that the devkits aren't really underclocked, but the current devkits overheat when pushed too far and freeze. The hardware itself is quite potent, but cooling is an issue right now.

So are the current air vents we see good enough, or could we be looking at something bigger with more tweaks to the casing to allow better air flow?