AMD: Southern Islands (7*** series) Speculation/ Rumour Thread

[UniversalTruth]

Partners are essential: they handle distribution, provide additional marketing and exposure, go the extra mile with special overclocked versions, custom coolers, beefed-up VRMs, and just about everything you can think of.

Yeah, they are quite essential for the reference design boards where they only put their stickers and nothing else. /sarcasm
If so, why don't AMD use such partners for extra marketing purposes for their CPUs or APUs?
And then, everything you listed can be done with same or close success by the company itself.

 

[Alexko]

Yeah, they are quite essential for the reference design boards where they only put their stickers and nothing else. /sarcasm

They're not limited to reference designs, and most of them go beyond.

If so, why don't AMD use such partners for extra marketing purposes for their CPUs or APUs?

Most of the marketing is centered around the specific features and properties of a partner's card: the bundle (games, cables and adapters, software), the cooling system, the custom board design, the added memory, the dual-bios, the custom video connectors, the high-quality capacitors, and exotic stuff like dual-GPU boards using mainstream GPUs, low-profile cards, passively or water cooled models, etc. Most of these things don't apply to CPUs.

Besides, discrete desktop graphics cards are often bought directly by consumers, especially high-end cards, while CPUs are mostly bought by OEMs, on whom the kind of marketing provided by partners would be lost.

And then, everything you listed can be done with same or close success by the company itself.

No it can't, or certainly not to the extent that partners do it. AMD doesn't have unlimited resources. In fact they've recently fired 10% of their workforce.

 

[Tridam]

One of AMD's branding issue regarding GPU is that some big partners are most of the time allowed to use the marketing/communication money to offer price cuts. It kills smaller players and does nothing to improve brand perception. They need to change that but it won't be easy

 

[lanek]

Yeah, they are quite essential for the reference design boards where they only put their stickers and nothing else. /sarcasm
If so, why don't AMD use such partners for extra marketing purposes for their CPUs or APUs?
And then, everything you listed can be done with same or close success by the company itself.

I can be wrong, but i have the feeling after the initial first months who follow a release, there's surely more AIB specific cards who are sold, instead of the reference one. ( remember the blue pcb ones and version2 ( who was offtly not as good of the reference one ) .. With all the different models who are released and a certain competition between AIB. ( with better cooler, clock speed, or OC specific features, sometimes just cheaper )

I have allways buy reference boards, Like that im sure they have the best power, and ram parts. Even if they dont come with the best coolers ( sound wise ). Personally this make 10years all my hardware have been watercooled, so i couldnt care less about the fan sound.

The only non reference i will buy are cards like the MSI Lightning and why not the last Asus DirectCUII products...

 

[Dave Baumann]

No, I have always thought that price discounts is exactly what will attract customers the most, they always welcome this and they are looking for that.

This is not brand building.

 

[AnarchX]

A $549 HD 7970, coming from a $370 HD 6970 is brand building?

Of course there are some serious problems with the costs of manufacturing in the latest process technologies, but that could be communicated to the customers, who wonder about these rising launch prices in AMDs product families.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

A $549 HD 7970, coming from a $370 HD 6970 is brand building?

Of course there are some serious problems with the costs of manufacturing in the latest process technologies, but that could be communicated to the customers, who wonder about these rising launch prices in AMDs product families.

I think they already tried to price Cayman to match GTX 400-series, but 500-series forced their hand. They want to make people think that these are worth the high price. AMD's "crown jewels" like was mentioned in their analysts day. I'm pretty certain that the manufacturing side does not explain the increase. They now have very strong market availability across their entire 7000-series range. Curious to see how things unfold. I haven't been a fan of the pricing, but I think that 7850 and 7750 are good value and positioned attractively.

 

[UniversalTruth]

I think that 7850 and 7750 are good value and positioned attractively.

The 7770 and 7750 offer the best performance/ $ ratio (inside 7000 series) as per http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7870_Direct_Cu_II/28.html

They want to make people think that these are worth the high price.

That's a direct contradiction to

Stop campaigning (changing your core brand message to fit what people need or want to hear today so that they buy your product or serivce.

A $549 HD 7970, coming from a $370 HD 6970 is brand building?

And this- a direct contradiction to one of their core principles.

Start committing (building on core principles that never change).

As seen in this presentation:

http://www.slideshare.net/paulisakson/modern-brand-building-presentation

This is not brand building.

Why not?
Everything related to improving your company's reputation can be considered as brand building. The problem (in my eyes) is that at the moment people are far from being happy about those product prices.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

The 7770 and 7750 offer the best performance/ $ ratio (inside 7000 series) as per http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/HD_7870_Direct_Cu_II/28.html

7850 starts to shine when OC'd, that's how I always look at these, because I would OC them. I'm not a huge fan of the 7770, it looked quite bad compared to the outgoing models unlike the 7850. However I haven't really looked at retail 7850s and what type of boards and possible OC room/restrictions they come with. The launch reviews said that the retail boards will be simpler/poorer than the 7870 board, which was used for the review units. I'd think there are some decent custom versions for that card also?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Why not?
Everything related to improving your company's reputation can be considered as brand building. The problem (in my eyes) is that at the moment people are far from being happy about those product prices.

Uh no. Building a brand is about creating extra value within the name. You do want a perception of value, but that's not the same as just being cheaper. Quality, performance, reliability, prestige are things that build brand value. How does selling similar products at a significant discount achieve any of that?

 

[UniversalTruth]

Very simple. More performance (quality) for the same money as what competition offers.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Very simple. More performance (quality) for the same money as what competition offers.

If the brand you want to create is 'Rolecks' (intentionally spelled that way) maybe.

 

[AnarchX]

Uh no. Building a brand is about creating extra value within the name. You do want a perception of value, but that's not the same as just being cheaper. Quality, performance, reliability, prestige are things that build brand value. How does selling similar products at a significant discount achieve any of that?

Sustainable pricing is part of good brand. Look at Apple.

HD 7000 series was a far step from former AMD/ATi product generations, which were characterized by very good price per performance ratio.

But with stalling costs per transistor were a probably look in a bad future for higher end GPUs until new solutions are coming up.

 

[UniversalTruth]

If the brand you want to create is 'Rolecks' (intentionally spelled that way) maybe.

Ok, I see what you are saying. But... it's too early. AMD haven't proved yet that they are the "Mercedes" in the graphics world. I mean people's opinion is that this title belongs to competition while AMD has always been something like "Volkswagen", or "Opel" in their eyes. The cheaper, lower quality alternative. Show me how exactly that changed. When everything is obvious- nvidia with its middle performance chip beats AMD's high-end.

A destiny which will never be changed. Maybe.

 

[Mianca]

Imagine you bought a Ferrari for $200.000 a few months ago. Now there's a new Porsche on the market - and Ferrari decides to suddenly lower their prices by 25%. Very bad decision as

(a) it's basically like admitting that the Ferrari is inferior to the new Porsche and can't compete at the "old" price.

(b) people who bought the Ferrari at the original price will feel screwed over - a lot of unhappy customers right there.

(c) observers might deduce that it's not worth buying a new Ferrari at all - as fragile price stability basically destroys the feeling of "value" attached to a purchase.

(d) Peope interested in buying a new Ferrari in the future won't buy one right after market introduction anymore - but instead wait for a price cut. Results in a general slowdown of sales.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Ok, I see what you are saying. But... it's too early. AMD haven't proved yet that they are the "Mercedes" in the graphics world. I mean people's opinion is that this title belongs to competition while AMD has always been something like "Volkswagen", or "Opel" in their eyes. The cheaper, lower quality alternative. Show me how exactly that changed. When everything is obvious- nvidia with its middle performance chip beats AMD's high-end.

A destiny which will never be changed. Maybe.

They won't create a strong brand over night, but I really don't buy the whole mercedes vs volkswagen crap in the graphics world. It's more like Ford vs GM. Or Honda Vs Hyundai or something. They aren't worlds apart in what they can demand for a product, but you're not going to become a Mercedes by acting like the Yugo.

 

[Ninjaprime]

I mean people's opinion is that this title belongs to competition while AMD has always been something like "Volkswagen", or "Opel" in their eyes. The cheaper, lower quality alternative.

Guess they need to do some brand building then, if thats your general opinion of them... And we've come full circle.

 

[sheepdogexpress]

They absolutely dont need to release a 1200mhz card... a 1050-1100 will not be a problem, 1100mhz is easy to do with no voltage increase using CCC . ( max is 1125mhz in CCC and i have yet to see a card who was not stable at this speed. )


Outside difference in some specification ( turbo, size and some features ) clock to clock, i think we have never get an Nvidia and AMD card so close of each other.

Edit:
I have make a little compilation between the 680 vs Asus DirectCU II ( 1000mhz / 5600mhz ) 1900x1200 based on Guru3d reviews for both 680 and Asus DirectCU II ( for an unkown reason he have not put the 680 results in the DirectCUII reviews ( who should have been made after his 680 review )

( i dont put FC2 and MW2 this bring no difference there )

Anno2040:
- GTX 680: 119fps
- HD 7970: 122fps
- 7970 1ghz: 129fps

Anno2070:
- GTX 680: 87 ( 1600p= 55fps )
- HD 7970: 82 ( 1600p= 55fps )
- 7970 1ghz: 87fps ( 58fps 2560x1600 )

Metro2033:
- GTX 680: 39fps
- HD 7970: 44fps
- 7970 1ghz: 45fps

Cryis2: ( 7970 allready win at 2560x1600)
- GTX 680: 63fps
- HD 7970: 61fps
- 7970 1ghz: 66fps

BF3: ( 7970 stock is faster without FXAA of the 680 )
- GTX 680: 57fps ( 1600P 38fps )
- HD 7970: 46fps ( 1600P 34fps )
- 7970 1ghz: 51fps ( 1600P 36fps )

AVP DX11:
- GTX 680: 52fps
- HD 7970: 55fps
- 7970 1ghz: 61fps

LP2: ( testB )
- GTX 680: 54fps
- HD 7970: 44fps
- 7970 1ghz: 46fps

Dirt3 will be a pure win for the 680, but i dont have the numbers.

Asus 7970 review http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-radeon-hd-7970-directcu-ii-review/22
GTX680 review http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-680-review/24


Looking at these result, i dont think AMD will really release another card. This is just a 1000mhz 7970 .. I dont even see why AIB would decrease their price. They just have to release different OC models.

I think 1000 would be the highest they would want to put their cards through without putting any extra effort into binning. Any more and they have to raise stock clocks just to safely get all their cards stable. OEM models are always clocked conservatively.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2228094

The worst overclock that was achieved was 1015 mhz. Alot of the cards hit 1100+ but when was the last time a videocard maker left 0 overclocking room in their cards. I think 1050mhz would piss alot of manufactures off selling OC cards, because most of their OC models would have a hard time selling with a 50 dollar premium and no difference in clock speed.

And this is all assuming Nvidia doesn't do the same thing and raise the clock speed of their models. The gtx 680 has very good overclocking ability as well.

The best thing AMD can do without stepping on too many feet is lower the price moderately($479 for a 7970, $399 7950, $329 or $299 7870) and get the hd8xxx out later this year and be more aggressive with the clocking. Selling at the same price or higher is only going to make them lose marketshare. The gtx 560 ti was the worse performer than the 6950 and it killed the 6950 for sales because it was slightly cheaper(than the 1gb model anyways).

 

[doob]

Imagine you bought a Ferrari for $200.000 a few months ago. Now there's a new Porsche on the market - and Ferrari decides to suddenly lower their prices by 25%. Very bad decision as

(a) it's basically like admitting that the Ferrari is inferior to the new Porsche and can't compete at the "old" price.

(b) people who bought the Ferrari at the original price will feel screwed over - a lot of unhappy customers right there.

(c) observers might deduce that it's not worth buying a new Ferrari at all - as fragile price stability basically destroys the feeling of "value" attached to a purchase.

(d) Peope interested in buying a new Ferrari in the future won't buy one right after market introduction anymore - but instead wait for a price cut. Results in a general slowdown of sales.

a) what if it is (and most likely)? Now prices have to remain high just because some silly person with too much money and weak character needs some artificial price constant to keep him/her feel/thinking he/she did a good purchase?

b) Foolish/greedy downsides. Anything i buy expensive has to remain so, because im special and never make dumb purchases.

c)Good, reality kicks in, consumers didn't fell for marketing. And i bet they would/will even feel better.

d) Slow downs will always occur. Can even occur from prices being way too high for what the product is or its quality. Or the market simply being oversupplied ( in the case of medium/high end graphic cards, has it ever?).

 

[xEx]

The worst overclock that was achieved was 1015 mhz. Alot of the cards hit 1100+ but when was the last time a videocard maker left 0 overclocking room in their cards. I think 1050mhz would piss alot of manufactures off selling OC cards, because most of their OC models would have a hard time selling with a 50 dollar premium and no difference in clock speed.

I think AMD could talk to their partners, have them liquidate stock of the current OC models and then make a reference model with 1050~ (remember that the process will get better with time), and the new OC models start over with the 1100. In theory, anyway

The best thing AMD can do without stepping on too many feet is lower the price moderately($479 for a 7970, $399 7950, $329 or $299 7870) and get the hd8xxx out later this year and be more aggressive with the clocking. Selling at the same price or higher is only going to make them lose marketshare. The gtx 560 ti was the worse performer than the 6950 and it killed the 6950 for sales because it was slightly cheaper(than the 1gb model anyways).

I think you are right. I mean, it would be a double-edged sword for AMD to raise the performance of their HD7970 because it would noticeably lessen the HD8000's performance increase, and with the current OC models AMD could do it right. To me, AMD should set the price of reference models at US$470 and the OC models up to US$550.

In actuality, I think the price is right on the 7970. The 7970 RTSO of the 680 in GPGPU, and in this market it counts. The difference in performance isn't so high.