How can an American console company succeed in Japan *spinoff

[corduroygt]

If the 360 isn't selling much in a country, why must they be the ones hating on Microsoft? Did you ever think it's maybe the US that loves the 360 way too much? More than it deserves? I certainly think the original xbox sold way too much in the US, regarding how its games library did not compare to the PS2. Maybe it's the US pro-MS bias that makes them sell so well here?

The same thing exists with Apple, although it could be argued that it's Apple's even higher prices that hurt its adoption outside the US.

 

[liolio]

Sorry mate, I wasn't ignoring your question, but I have absolutely zero experience witn Spanish people whether through business contacts or personally. So I wasn't going to comment on what may or may not be going on there.

My main area of expertise is centered around the Pacific rim (espcially Japan and Taiwan), mostly north of the equator. Some knowlege of consumer habits and perceptions in France, England, and Germany and that would be it for most of Europe.

If I were to just go with a few films I have seen from Spain, my immediate reaction would be that they love Japanese culture and items even more than France, and the French REALLY seem to love Japanese culture and items. Combine that with a little bit of anti-Americanism or perhaps anti-American-Corporationism or perhaps just Anti-Microsoft. That last seems to be fairly common in many (not all) mainland European countries.

But as I said that would be at best a very tenuous guess with no personal experience to back it up.

Regards,
SB

I don't know why but it seems that there are some cultural links between Japan and Spain or some attraction. For example I kno that they are quiet some potent japanese flamenco player. Japan has an histoy of producing flamenco guitars too.

But I'm not sure that that's the reason of Ms failure or Sony success over there though I more for your last argument + gold live subscription.

 

[liolio]

If the 360 isn't selling much in a country, why must they be the ones hating on Microsoft? Did you ever think it's maybe the US that loves the 360 way too much? More than it deserves? I certainly think the original xbox sold way too much in the US, regarding how its games library did not compare to the PS2. Maybe it's the US pro-MS bias that makes them sell so well here?

The same thing exists with Apple, although it could be argued that it's Apple's even higher prices that hurt its adoption outside the US.

It may sell a bit more than it deserve but comparing that to the x15 ratio that we found in Japan. I don't think that it will get you anywhere.

By the way why nobody reacted to the links I gave earlier, neither the guy from Capcom or the SE CEO are hiding behind their pinky.

 

[corduroygt]

It may sell a bit more than it deserve but comparing that to the x15 ratio that we found in Japan. I don't think that it will get you anywhere.

By the way why nobody reacted to the links I gave earlier, neither the guy from Capcom or the SE CEO are hiding behind their pinky.

You're not going to get any arguments from me on that. Japanese people will keep buying their own electronic products unless the competition is utterly superior in every aspect by a mile and costs much less. You can't change the culture of the people.

 

[mrcorbo]

If the 360 isn't selling much in a country, why must they be the ones hating on Microsoft? Did you ever think it's maybe the US that loves the 360 way too much? More than it deserves? I certainly think the original xbox sold way too much in the US, regarding how its games library did not compare to the PS2. Maybe it's the US pro-MS bias that makes them sell so well here?

Firstly, I'm not sure I buy that there's a pro-MS bias anywhere, unless by bias you mean, "shows a tendency to dislike less than everywhere else". I haven't done the market research, but I'd bet when most people think of the Microsoft XBox 360's branding the "Microsoft" is a silent "Microsoft".

Now from the perspective of someone who apparently shouldn't have bought an XBox, but somehow did; the size of the PS2's games library didn't matter to me. I had 50+ games for my Xbox. How many more would I have bought if I had a PS2? Probably not many more. I don't regret my choice in the slightest. Halo (not 2), Ninja Gaiden, KOTOR. Splinter Cell, Crimson Skies; these all trump any number of PS2 exclusives for me and these, added to what I viewed as an adequate amount of multiplatform support, lept me quite satisfied. I expect that there are many more like me than there are who bought the console for who made it and what their country of origin was.

Of course, the reason I bought it initially was that I was a bit of an Nvidia fanboy at the time and because it was, overall, a more powerful machine. Of course, this makes my posts in the "Age of subsidizing is over" thread pretty ironic. :smile:

 

[corduroygt]

Halo (not 2), Ninja Gaiden, KOTOR. Splinter Cell, Crimson Skies; these all trump any number of PS2 exclusives for me and these, added to what I viewed as an adequate amount of multiplatform support, lept me quite satisfied.

I take it you didn't have a PC back then? Gaming PC's weren't hot, loud, or required monster cases and power supplies, since I played most of those games with better gfx on my PC.

You're also in the minority that those games trumping PS2 exclusives, there was definitely a pro-Xbox bias in the US, since the rest of the world did not think so. It's either everyone else was biased against the Xbox or only the US is biased for it, I know which one is more likely.

Just like how people bought shitty Chevrolet Cavaliers in comparable numbers to the much superior civics and corollas back in the day.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

After reading the insulent words by Corduroygt, I had to go give my old Xbox a hug.
Then I remembered this great old video made by guys from a Finnish messageboard before the release of the 360. Should bring up some happy memories to those who actually had good times with the good old Xbox 1. (cool finish after the credits included )

 

[corduroygt]

I had an Xbox, it was used mainly for XBMC and some light gaming on my part, when the awful, awful controller didn't get in the way, that is. But I had a PC and pretty much all the games I cared about were on there as well, with better graphics. I bought Jade Empire for it, only to be disappointed when it came to the PC later. I also tried Halo 2, having already beaten Halo on the PC, and hated it as well.

 

[mrcorbo]

I take it you didn't have a PC back then?

<Points to Signature>

Gaming PC's weren't hot, loud, or required monster cases and power supplies, since I played most of those games with better gfx on my PC.

The Halo experience on the PC was a pretty poor representation of the console experience. The fact that it was missing local co-op alone made it markedly inferior.

I actually found having a gaming PC to be a nice complement to my XBox. Where the libraries overlapped, I had the luxury of choosing the best platform for that particular game. KOTOR 2, for example, I played on the PC.

You're also in the minority that those games trumping PS2 exclusives.

Seems likely, given the numbers of each console sold. Not sure why it matters, though. I don't base my opinions on what other people think. That's what makes them my opinions.

there was definitely a pro-Xbox bias in the US, since the rest of the world did not think so. It's either everyone else was biased against the Xbox or only the US is biased for it, I know which one is more likely.

There are any number of reasons why a product might sell better or worse in one region than others that have nothing to do with that one region having a bias.

 

[TheChefO]

It just hit me!

MS needs to buy (or partner with) Nintendo.

Japan sales - solved
Casual market likes and dislikes - solved
handheld market (hello win mobile 7 games) - solved
broad software appeal - solved
Japanese developer support - solved
Iconic vg characters beyond master chief - solved

What Nintendo would get out of the deal:
Funding - solved
Network (live) - solved
Hardcore gamers - solved
Hardcore hardware - solved
Network services (netflix, facebook, zune, etc) - solved
Kinect (wii interface evolved) - solved


MS might want to wait it out for the price to get a bit better, but working something out before they drop wii2 would be a good idea.

That's how an American company can succeed in Japan.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

After both the Wii and DS being such a hit for so long, I doubt funding is a concern at Nintendo right now. Falling sales of the Wii and PSP doing relatively better in Japan are probably more of a concern, neither of which are anything MS would be able to help with.

Nintendo and MS aren't that far apart actually. MS does or at least did make games for the DS for example.

Regards,
SB

 

[assen]

Nintendo is sitting on a mountain of cash comparable to Microsoft's; why would they sell again?

At some point they were approaching Toyota in market cap, almost becoming the largest Japanese company.

 

[Rotmm]

Nintendo is sitting on a mountain of cash comparable to Microsoft's; why would they sell again?

At some point they were approaching Toyota in market cap, almost becoming the largest Japanese company.

Really? According to the latest figures I can find, the market cap for Nintendo is just shy of $36B. That point you spoke of was in 2007.

And MS is sitting on a cash pile of £40B. Of course, MS are unlikely to see Nintendo as a fit for their business, and Nintendo would never sell to Microsoft unless it was the most hostile of takeovers.

 

[KongRudi]

Microsoft need to start making games of their own, they need to grow some franchises tailored toward the japaneese market. :-/
That's what the japaneese consumer know and expect from their console-provider.
Right now, Microsoft is exporting American games to Japan, and once in a while they buy a title for their Japaneese consumer..
It would be like the Playstation is in the US, only without God of War, Uncahrted, Warhawk, Socom, Syphon Filter, Infamous, Sly Cooper, and all the other games from american first party studios, you only got the exclusive titles that Sony bought from Insomniac and other third party developers, and foreign titles.

So why should a japaneese person would want to buy a Xbox?
When most of the games they usually want to play comes out on PS3/PSP/DS/Wii..
They need to show that if you're going to spend hundreds of dollars on a console, that you will get a a good amount of games for it, on a regular basis..

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But MS started this gen in Japan with some Japanesse grown games from big Japanese names, and they didn't get very far. That's clearly not enough.

 

[KongRudi]

Without any studios of their own, it's just that. Some games from some japaneese big names.

Sure, the 360 might be fine hardware at a nice entry-pricepoint, but the game-portofolio from a consumer-standpoint in Japan is at a distant last place, and I don't think that's just because of xenophobia, it might have something to do, that Microsoft don't aim for that market at the moment.

Those japaneese people who 'jumped in' back then when they got Lost Odyssey, and Blue Dragon in a span of two years; don't you think they would have liked better if MS had started up two or three of their own studios wich could make more games targeted them, so they got something else to play, besides those two-three JRPG's wich Mistwalker commisioned?

All I can think of the last two years, is a couple of shmups and a idolmaster-game wich were console-exclusive 360-games in Japan, so perhaps those who took a wait and see aproach before jumping in, weren't necesarilly doing it because of xenophobia.
But because they didn't thrust MS to provide them with more games.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If the Japanese market wants MS to own and run a few Japanese studios before they'll buy into the platform, that's a very different mindset from the rest of the world. You don't get Spain or Greece wanting MS to own spanish and Greek studios. MS owns very little, allowing the platform to grow via 3rd parties and 2nd party comissions. At the end of the day surely it's the library, not the studios, that matter?

Or is your point that there aren't any Japanocentric exclusives, meaning the Japanese will buy PS3 and get all the titles that come on XB360 along with Sony's Japan exclusives? If that's the case, MS can talckle that by securing more exclusives with the money they don't spend on buying studios.

 

[KongRudi]

Well, do you see my point?
You would find the PS3 alot less apealing if it only had Resistance, Ratchet & Clank, and Haze tailored towards you..
Instead Sony has lots of other games aswell, with muscular guys with weapons running around with huge weapons in GoW, Uncharted, Socom, MAG, etc. etc.

 

[draconian]

Japan is dying demographics

People don't realize that Japan is a dying market. I remember reading a few years back how all these elementary schools were closing because of a lack of children - in fact, they had recorded the fewest number of birth of babies since Japanese government began keeping track of births. Fighting for such diminishing market isn't something Microsoft should waste their efforts on.

Things MS could do that haven't already been mentioned....I think.....
1) Remove the xbox live fees for Japan.

2) Try to strengthen the Microsoft brand. While branding has pretty much died in the US. In Japan, brand awareness is still highly valued.

3) rename from Xbox to something else. x-box in japan means, from what i read in another blog, batsu-box. X denotes something bad as in bad quality. In contrast, X in the US, denotes extreme, mysterious, awesome, etc...


I think the one american company that could succeed with a gaming machine is apple. Ipods are the best selling mp3 players in Japan. There is something about the apple brand and their products that appeal to many japanese people. and with the iphone taking the majority share of the smartphone market..

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...e_takes_72_of_japanese_smartphone_market.html

Apple is really the one american company that could succeed there.

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As mentioned by ChefO, MS could simply buy Nintendo. Nintendo has like $10 billion in the bank, so an offer from MS would have to be around $35 - $50 billion. At that point, is it really worth it? So what if MS became the dominant console in the world, aside from ego stroking benefits, what would that really bring to MS? The reason why MS got into the console race was to stop Sony from taking over the living room, because that's where the future battle was supposed to be. But as it turns out, video game console aren't going to dominate the living room, more advanced blu-ray players, dvr-cable boxes, netflix players, apple TV, google TV and even TVs like Samsung's TV appstore (which are directly built into a TV. Netflix, ESPN, Yahoo, blockbuster, Twitter, Skype, etc.. ), are going to dominate....

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/183-Samsung-HDTV-Apps.html

 

[Silent_Buddha]

While the birth rate in Japan is declining (as they are in most of the top tier Western countries including America), that hardly makes the market irrelevant. Especially for the Japanese companies that make the games many of us like to play.

While it's true that Japan is relatively irrelevant with regards to non-Japanese developed games, it's still extremely relevant to Square-Enix, Capcom, Konami, etc. who get a large chunk of their revenue from the Japanese market. Some of them still get the majority of their revenue from the Japanese market, which allows them to attempt titles that are more suited to the western market.

I'd wager, Japan is probably more relevant than the majority of EU countries, but noone is suggesting companies stop trying to sell consoles in Poland or Denmark for example.

Regards,
SB