Flesh damage technology.

Well if they do too good of a job they'll get slapped with R18 ratings and/or outright banned in a lot of places. Hence theres probably very little reason to 'get it right' under that context of ratings laws and censorship.
 
Squilliam said:
Well if they do too good of a job they'll get slapped with R18 ratings and/or outright banned in a lot of places. Hence theres probably very little reason to 'get it right' under that context of ratings laws and censorship.
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Exactly what I was thinking. Plus, outside of major deformations, I don't think people are going to care so much about the physics of how a person gets ripped apart. I think major body sections will suffice, and calculating something like a finger getting shot off or something like that wouldn't be too noticeable.
 
Mobius1aic said:
Exactly what I was thinking. Plus, outside of major deformations, I don't think people are going to care so much about the physics of how a person gets ripped apart. I think major body sections will suffice, and calculating something like a finger getting shot off or something like that wouldn't be too noticeable.
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I am not talking about fingers blown off. I am only looking in the tech and the Q is, do wee not have the CPU power too do a good job, or is it just time?:mad:
 
mitran said:
I am not talking about fingers blown off. I am only looking in the tech and the Q is, do wee not have the CPU power too do a good job, or is it just time?:mad:
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I was using the finger as an example of how it's something no one would even bother to notice, and I don't think such a damage model would even be worth implementing beyond limb gibbing and texture decals for bullet wounds. I think the CPU power is somewhat there if it's allocated to such a scheme, but the realistic thing is that a game that would possibly benefit in terms of that kind of realism (FPSs) already has to orchestrate so much already including the runtime, physics, AI, etc. The damage model would have to be managed across multiple bodies/personas, perhaps dozens, which also has to be visually rendered too. Also, how would you implement it? Purely procedural (yeah good fucking luck) or based on specific hit areas on the body causing specific effects based on angle, distance, etc, etc? Complex problem, very complex solution, and IMO not worth developers time.
 
Mobius1aic said:
I was using the finger as an example of how it's something no one would even bother to notice, and I don't think such a damage model would even be worth implementing beyond limb gibbing and texture decals for bullet wounds. I think the CPU power is somewhat there if it's allocated to such a scheme, but the realistic thing is that a game that would possibly benefit in terms of that kind of realism (FPSs) already has to orchestrate so much already including the runtime, physics, AI, etc. The damage model would have to be managed across multiple bodies/personas, perhaps dozens, which also has to be visually rendered too. Also, how would you implement it? Purely procedural (yeah good fucking luck) or based on specific hit areas on the body causing specific effects based on angle, distance, etc, etc? Complex problem, very complex solution, and IMO not worth developers time.
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Well Metal Gear Solid Rising seems to have a lovely system in place already, and i can't wait to see how well that game plays out with the mechanic.

I personally feel that if a dev decided to impliment such a system into their game then it should be done as a major gameplay mechanic along the lines of how enviromental distruction was for Red Faction games. I think it would be a compelling enough mechanic to get gamers excited about a game designed around that. A developer designing such a game would have to design the gameplay systems, environments, number of on-screen enemies etc around that, and i personally think that given an imaginitive setting and fine-tuned gameplay it could make a really solid and innovative title (albeit with an R18 rating).

I agree though that for most devs making COD#3525 or the next Halo it isn't the kind of system which can be implimented in an already established codebase easily or without forcing serious compromises.

I reckon a next-gen stealth ninja type game would be a perfect fit... or even a game very much like RDR (where you have wide-open plains with very little on screen at one time).
 
Prophecy2k said:
Well Metal Gear Solid Rising seems to have a lovely system in place already, and i can't wait to see how well that game plays out with the mechanic.

I personally feel that if a dev decided to impliment such a system into their game then it should be done as a major gameplay mechanic along the lines of how enviromental distruction was for Red Faction games. I think it would be a compelling enough mechanic to get gamers excited about a game designed around that. A developer designing such a game would have to design the gameplay systems, environments, number of on-screen enemies etc around that, and i personally think that given an imaginitive setting and fine-tuned gameplay it could make a really solid and innovative title (albeit with an R18 rating).

I agree though that for most devs making COD#3525 or the next Halo it isn't the kind of system which can be implimented in an already established codebase easily or without forcing serious compromises.

I reckon a next-gen stealth ninja type game would be a perfect fit... or even a game very much like RDR (where you have wide-open plains with very little on screen at one time).
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What MGS Rising has going for it is pretty simple, making a split along the "target" polygons, and filling in the inside with a single surface (remember this is a blade they are using). It's not like simulating a bullet impact, that's completely different and requires a much different method. That bullet could go through, it could twist as it penetrates and if it goes through will leave a much bigger exit wound that will require not only calculating the effects but creating visual damage that is reflecting the performance of the bullet round, possibly thousands of bullets per second.
 
Mobius1aic said:
What MGS Rising has going for it is pretty simple, making a split along the "target" polygons, and filling in the inside with a single surface (remember this is a blade they are using). It's not like simulating a bullet impact, that's completely different and requires a much different method. That bullet could go through, it could twist as it penetrates and if it goes through will leave a much bigger exit wound that will require not only calculating the effects but creating visual damage that is reflecting the performance of the bullet round, possibly thousands of bullets per second.
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Well at least i can see you understand what i was hinting at... of course if shooters are the only gaming genre where in-game characters can be broken or eviscerated then fair enough, short of maybe shot-gun blasts there's no need doing anything more than they currently do in most shooters...

On the other hand i'm thinking much more about games like Dragon Age, or Elder Scrolls, i.e. games where we can chop up our enemies with extreme prejudice in a similar way that MSG:R allows ;-)... I'd like to see that kinda thing in more games.

Also, why not make a futuristic game where characters fire sustained laser beams rather than bullets.... tailor the game fiction to what's realistically practicable with the technology... i'd LOVE a game that would let me slice & dice fools with a laser gun :D
(Edit: come to think of it, Dead Space does this to an extent... and that was certainly satisfying)

There's no reason to disregard the concept of flesh alteration mechanics in all video games simply because it's too hard to do with modern (setting) shooters.
 
For those that liked Bushido blade there is the Deadliest Warrior game from spike. It's cheap and not that deep but it does have flesh damage and instakills.
 
I don't know, do you think it would be worth the developement time, to make a realistic hit detection of fullscale body-mapping as detailed as down to finger-damage, especially if you have to do it on all models?
To me that sounds allmost as useless as the taking into account the planet rotation when calculating bullet-trajectory wich supposedly were done in Killzone 2, wich they removed for Killzone 3 to free up CPU-cycles. :-/

Resistance had some smaller target-area, like when you aimed for hoses on the breathing aparatus on the Chimera, you could shoot them off, and see the hose fly in all directions, stuff like that is cool. But it's no point in adding it, if we can't actually judge that it's where we hit, I think.
Might be cool with random events happening, like a finger flying one out of 20 times you hit a hand.

Resistance also had a weapon wich shot through walls, the more walls it went through, the more damage you'd take/give. :-/ Don't think it could be charactherised as 'flesh damage' tough, probably just a damage-modifier, since it were pretty powerfull, atleast in the second game where it were usefull against those invisible foes, didn't use it much in the first..

Killzone 2 probably have the best hit-detection system I've seen, not that into FPS's tough, only really liked The Darkness, Killzone and the Resistance-games. :)
Don't think it got finger-damage tough (lol), but I think you could shoot the gun out of the hands of the soldiers. And their animations and similar changed if you managed to hurt them in certain areas, if you hit them in the foot they might not be able to stand on that foot, and fall in that diraction, and similar. If you only hit their helmet it would go flying without doing damage to opponent, sooner or later you'll get a trophy for shooting helmets of X Helghasts. :)
It added quite much to my enjoyment of the game, but it's not really necessary to do it aswell as they did in most games. :-/
The coolest thing tough, is having fun with the bolt-gun, that really showed off the hit-detection, and physics. I don't know how many times I died because I ran up to the dude I'd just shot with the bolt-gun just to look how I pinned him to the wall, before beeing blown up by my own timed explosive on the bolt. :p I'm pretty sure I never managed to nail anyone to the wall by the finger tough.. :p

Dunno about the third person games, I think they are to hard to judge the hit-detection to be sure how accurate it is I think. :-/ Heavenly Sword did have some really cool stuff in the arrow-parts with Kai tough, that were really cool, but in general I find it abit hard to see where I hit, to react if something is acting strange.. :-/
 
Uncharted games are 3rd person and have robust hit detection and reactions. Most Sony first party games that involve shooting seem to do. Apart from maybe Infamous where it's hard to tell with electrocution. The previously mentioned Rockstar games do.

Haven't played everything, not even everything well rated so there could easily be more.
 
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