Rock Band 3
- Thread starter Arwin
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I caved and ordered the Fender Mustang today from amazon.de for 135 euro ... will be interesting to see when I get it, but I'm off on Thursday so here's hoping! The fact that I can use it as a midi instrument makes the price a lot sweeter for me.
Check out some of the tutorials. It has actual music lessons in there.
I played until 4am - Blood Sugar Sex Magic is a perfect album to play guitar, bass or drums along with and the sound quality is great. I managed most songs on Expert partly because I have that album pretty much memorised!
Arwin, I'm researching my shopping now. Are these the only tutorials ?
http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?204561-Rock-Band-3-Video-Tutorials!
No no, I'm talking about in the game! You can check the trophy list for this game for an early impression, as a bunch of the training exercises for the Pro mode instruments have trophies attached to them. Basically the training modes for Pro Guitar teach you how to play guitar.
I think this one gives a better impression:
rendezvous
Regular
there are lessons for pro keys (keyboard) as well
Is there a place I can see all the keyboard tutorials ? Did a quick YouTube search but I am going to need more refined keyword(s).
I'm trying to compare GarageBand style lessons and RB style. Thinking of a way to smuggle a cheap, weighted MIDI keyboard into the house.
[size=-2]I guess you can say I'm doing a lesson plan for my kid.[/size]
I'm trying to compare GarageBand style lessons and RB style. Thinking of a way to smuggle a cheap, weighted MIDI keyboard into the house.
[size=-2]I guess you can say I'm doing a lesson plan for my kid.[/size]
I found a few RB3 keyboard videos/tutorials. It looks like the keyboard gameplay is also QTE based. I am looking for a different kind of keyboard games.
I don't really have a fixed idea. But I am looking for something that is closer to Yamaha's software/digital scores and may be a little bit of Garage Band's instrument tutorials. The latter is too deep but the material is relevant. I am looking for a game, not so much a lesson package.
I don't like QTE music games because the strict timing would make learning more difficult. The Yamaha scores would wait for the player and synchronize all the accompaniment with the player's pace. You really do feel like you're in control and in full orchestral support. The music was simply beautiful. Even my wife was wowed when she tried to play one for the very first time. It also has optional LED on each key to show which ones to press. Eventually the kid/adult would grasp music. But along the way they need lotsa encouragement, entertainment and rewards. The Yamaha software doesn't really have these elements built in, and the big problem is all the nice things combined cost US$10,000 and above.
Now for a console, all the computing power, AV units, speakers, LCD screen are already in place. Only the software is lacking. Once hooked, it would be a multi-year engagement too. I could use one to complement the traditional piano classes.
I haven't checked out Wii Music yet.
I don't really have a fixed idea. But I am looking for something that is closer to Yamaha's software/digital scores and may be a little bit of Garage Band's instrument tutorials. The latter is too deep but the material is relevant. I am looking for a game, not so much a lesson package.
I don't like QTE music games because the strict timing would make learning more difficult. The Yamaha scores would wait for the player and synchronize all the accompaniment with the player's pace. You really do feel like you're in control and in full orchestral support. The music was simply beautiful. Even my wife was wowed when she tried to play one for the very first time. It also has optional LED on each key to show which ones to press. Eventually the kid/adult would grasp music. But along the way they need lotsa encouragement, entertainment and rewards. The Yamaha software doesn't really have these elements built in, and the big problem is all the nice things combined cost US$10,000 and above.
Now for a console, all the computing power, AV units, speakers, LCD screen are already in place. Only the software is lacking. Once hooked, it would be a multi-year engagement too. I could use one to complement the traditional piano classes.
I haven't checked out Wii Music yet.
I understand, but rhythm is one of the hardest things to learn in music, so it's not so bad for learning. The games themselves are pretty good with the various difficulty levels you can play them at. You can play all songs with a 'no fail' mode. I would probably teach my son music this way first. Let him focus on getting the rhythm right, and then slowly expanding the number of keys/strums/hits of the various instruments, and once he can manage simple songs, I will slowly start to introduce some theory (which you can also get from the tutorials).
The timing while difficult, is easy to grasp after even a little while. You can start training this using the non-pro modes, and just play on easy, which will only use three buttons. Then you start with focussing on just one of the three buttons (colors) to get the timing right. Once you get that, you expand to the other colors, and once you've got that down, you can start doing more complicated rhythms.
Once that goes well, you can move on to the tutorials (which then won't cause a QTE style problem) and the pro mode songs, at full speed or at a training speed (you can bring it down to something like 60% of the original speed). As the songs are categorised in difficultly from very easy to very hard, you would work through the groups of difficulty levels.
And even the non-pro mode songs keep being great exercise. I really regret that I didn't have games like these available when I was a kid - it would have helped a tonne and speeded up my learning to no end.
Another advantage of Rockband 3 is that you can play so many different instruments with it.
I agree that's a nice feature, but not necessarily great for learning to be honest . Rhythm is hugely underestimated, and just playing the old 5 button fake guitar in these type of games has improved my skill immensely. I've played in a few bands, and in the end playing the actual notes is never as hard as keeping a steady pace and staying together, rhythm wise.
I had a few midi apps like that back in the day, which would show you a guitar or a keyboard (The Pianist it was called, had some great midi tracks and there was a wonderful Jazz Pianist version, and Guitarist)
This is where I like Rockband a lot - as it scores you for your correct notes, and various little entertaining distractions involving combos and multipliers - you get an incredible sense of progress. Each time you get more stars/higher percentage or just make it through a really difficult song with no fail mode off, its a reward. Then there are the fans you accumulate, and the heaps of bonus items to adorn your band members with. Not all of those are equally interesting, but especially just working your way towards a 100% score on a song is amazing (I admit I only have a 99% here and there, no 100% yet though I think I only missed one note on Don't Stand So Close to Me).
I think your family could end up liking it a lot, especially as you can play it together as well - there are up to three vocal parts to sing, drums, bass, guitar and keys.
I also think that anyone who plays music should probably learn to drum at least a little bit. All instruments have a percussive element to them, and drumming is such a great way to learn to understand that better.
Don't ....
Ah, I'm not saying rhythm game is useless. It's just that at this point, I am looking for something slightly different for my kid. I think in general kids are sensitive to beats and rhythm, but they need finger strength, coordination, etc. They usually try to go fast but I have to slow them down. May be RockBand will help, but I think I need a mechanism to slow it down. ^_^
What's wrong with Wii music ?
I'll most certainly get a MIDI keyboard for duet. Will see how it goes.
What's wrong with Wii music ?
I'll most certainly get a MIDI keyboard for duet. Will see how it goes.
From one of the best researched reviews that Ellie Gibson has ever written, as she actually has reviewed it together with a musician and a music teacher:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/wii-music-review?page=1 5/10.
And yes, I know that The Fight also got a 5/10, but it was reviewed by someone else, and that review didn't bring in various experts.
Tough.
Thanks for the Wii Music link. I agree with Nintendo's approach sometimes (e.g., Not defining the terms "pitch" and "harmony" in the game). They should do so only if the player wants to find out more. However, in some areas, I think Jake is correct (It's ok for the player to make awful music instead of limiting the outcome by algorithms).
It's a very difficult topic (Make a sustainable game to teach/appreciate music). May be kicking off with a simple PSN music game is good start.
Thanks for the Wii Music link. I agree with Nintendo's approach sometimes (e.g., Not defining the terms "pitch" and "harmony" in the game). They should do so only if the player wants to find out more. However, in some areas, I think Jake is correct (It's ok for the player to make awful music instead of limiting the outcome by algorithms).
It's a very difficult topic (Make a sustainable game to teach/appreciate music). May be kicking off with a simple PSN music game is good start.
Some news about next week DLC:
DLC 30 Nov 2010
Pack Lynyrd Skynyrd 560mp
Lynyrd Skynyrd – “Saturday Night Special” X
Lynyrd Skynyrd – “Sweet Home Alabama (Live)” X
Lynyrd Skynyrd – “Tuesday’s Gone”
Lynyrd Skynyrd – “What’s Your Name?” X
160mp c/u
.38 Special – “Hold On Loosely” X
Bad Company – “Can’t Get Enough” X
Those marked with an X support Pro Guitar.
On a different note, I've been playing RB3 more lately and despite I've been playing music games for 3 years know I find it great, especially because of Pro instruments. I'll let you know if I get a bit tired, but for now, I'm really enjoying it and will have to go back and play it some more right now.
DLC 30 Nov 2010
Pack Lynyrd Skynyrd 560mp
Lynyrd Skynyrd – “Saturday Night Special” X
Lynyrd Skynyrd – “Sweet Home Alabama (Live)” X
Lynyrd Skynyrd – “Tuesday’s Gone”
Lynyrd Skynyrd – “What’s Your Name?” X
160mp c/u
.38 Special – “Hold On Loosely” X
Bad Company – “Can’t Get Enough” X
Those marked with an X support Pro Guitar.
On a different note, I've been playing RB3 more lately and despite I've been playing music games for 3 years know I find it great, especially because of Pro instruments. I'll let you know if I get a bit tired, but for now, I'm really enjoying it and will have to go back and play it some more right now.
I think the lower difficulty levels of RB3's Pro mode are an ideal mechanism to enforce slowing down and focusing on technique and rhythm. I see one of the great obstacles that beginning musicians have to overcome is that when you first start and have little or no skill the sounds you are able to produce are extremely boring and unrewarding. It takes a lot of drills and lot of learning simple melodies before you can play something that you might actually enjoy.
RB3 OTOH, when asking for the same simple notes, rewards the player by outputting real music (maybe even your favorite song). It has been my experience so far as I push farther and farther into Pro drums that I am much more motivated than I have ever been before in multiple attempts to keep working to become more skillful. I'm drilling on the lower difficulties in the hope of one day being able to step up to expert level and play the parts for real, but it doesn't feel like work like it always has before.
Yes, that's the effect I hope to create for my kid. Hide the drilling and reward him over time. My key concern is the simple QTE mechanics may lose steam quickly. How varied is RB3 exactly ?
I was thinking of complementing RB3 with something else but the other software are rather deep.
In some cases, competition between siblings work but he's the only child right now.
I was thinking of complementing RB3 with something else but the other software are rather deep.
In some cases, competition between siblings work but he's the only child right now.
It's as varied as the number of tracks available with a part for the instrument you are playing. The real art to what Harmonix does is their note tracking. Somehow even the vastly simplified tracking for lower levels still contains something of the essence of the original music.
To give a more concrete example:
Take a song that has a a progression of chords. The real track may have you hit one chord 8 times over 1/2 of the phrase followed by a different chord 4 times and a third chord 4 times. On easy, you might see one note that you hit once for half the phrase before you hit a different note followed by an interval half as long before you hit the 3rd note to complete the phrase. On medium, you might hit two notes 4 times over half the phrase followed by two different combinations of notes twice each, etc. In the above example, even with the vastly simplified tracking of the easy level, it still represents the chord changes and the timing of those chord changes and something of the character of the original music can still come through.
As for something to create competition, there's always the star rating and the percentage of correct notes given at the end of each playthrough of a track. It's pretty easy to set personal goals of, "5 stars on every "Warmup" level song on Easy difficulty" or 100% on a specific track.
After watching a video, (So I can only speak about the gameplay. I have no idea about the depth RB for IPad contains as compared to the console version) the Ipad gameplay is slightly simplified. On RB, as with GH before it, when you get to Hard you have to deal with a fifth note, Medium has 4 and Easy 3.
Also, completely missing is the tactile feedback you get from the instruments. In the case of the non-pro guitars they may be vague approximations of the real thing, but they're better than nothing. Having a lot of experience playing a real stringed instrument definitely helped me be comfortable with the mechanics of coordinating my right and left hands as well as being comfortable doing hand position shifts to be able to hit all five notes on the guitar. It's actually kind of comparable to the way the Easy mode tracking evokes the real song.
The drums feel infinitely more realistic than that and on Pro drums, on a complete kit (even on Easy), you are expected to be able to perform one of 8 possible inputs in the rhythm the track demands. Unfortunately they don't support tracking of the hi-hat/double kick pedal, so it doesn't fully equal the experience of playing an electronic drum kit. :/
And the keyboard.....is a keyboard with one fairly major omission. RB3 only supports using one hand on keyboards. This means that RB3 can only really serve as an introduction to the instrument. You will at some point have to move on in order to develop the use of the left hand and right hand together.
Honestly though, the biggest thing that seemed to me to be missing from IPad RB is the "Band" part. Playing this as a group makes it infinitely more enjoyable for everybody. It's a great family/party activity.
