Global warming

[rpg.314]

Acting on unrefined knowledge to increase taxpayer burden by trillions is a bad thing indeed.

And you are saying that this knowledge is unrefined based on what?

Some species die out, others fill the void, sounds like the modus operandi of mother nature to me. So what if we don't get any more polar bears, but have more brown bears, big deal.

Sure, Whales die out, other species replace them. Then by your argument, their will be no need to ban whaling or killing of any other endangered species.

BTW, have you bothered to consider that this road might make humans as a species the loser. Or do you simply not care because you are sure that you will be able to live your life to it's end?

Neither does what scientists measured and modeled after 30 years of data collection matter in the big scheme of things.

Of course not. Since we have you to impart this knowledge to us.

 

[rpg.314]

That they change so often, SHOULD encourage people to question and criticize them, so they can be improved upon.

I think it's quite stupid to shout: "Sacrilege!" whenever someone does so.

One should shout sacrilege whenever someone does so WITHOUT scientific evidence.

According to... You? The IPCC? The Right Scientists?

Fine. Give me your version of scientific evidence against global warming.

That's evolution for you. Very scientific. Although the time spans involved make a millennium look like a short time. Worrying about things like that doesn't make any sense to me.

AGW isn't happening on those timescales.

Yes, I know things don't matter if they don't happen in the US, to Americans. But they do to the rest of the world.

You didn't get the context in which it was said, did you?

So here it is. You have to consider the average temperature of the ENTIRE EARTH. Netherlands alone contributes just noise to that calculation. Even the whole of europe is, at best, a minor contributor to that calculation. He isn't acting like a selfish, self-obsessed bastard.

 

[gamervivek]

Wouldn't it be more of a problem if they never changed, despite our still limited understanding of the global weather system? I don't get you anti-science, anti-reasoning types. You act as if honing and refining our knowledge is a bad thing.

Jumping on half-truths and acting upon them is a bad thing.

You think ANY field of science just sprung into existence fully-fledged from the get-go? Wtflol. You must be completely daft... Just take a look at astrophysics. Start at the beginning, the ancient greeks and whatnot, early christians, then Kepler, Copernicus and so on. Moving on into modern times with the discoveries of galaxies, red-shift, cosmic background radiation, on and on and on. How many times didn't scientists (or their progenitors in ancient times) form a view of the universe, only for it to be discarded later on.

Indeed, that's what should make us circumspect.

Saying that EXPANDING KNOWLEDGE IS BAD, or makes science suspect, is completely fucked-up. You even have any idea how fucked-up that is? Why don't you read up on the scientific model, how it works, what a scientific theory really is (specifically, it's not merely GUESSWORK.)

Do you know how it works?

Plants and animals may be able to withstand variations on that scale over SHORT time periods. Over longer time periods, odd things can, and usually do happen. Everything from the sex distribution in fish, amphibian or reptilian population population changing proportions, species migrations (including invasions of pests or diseases that never previously existed in that area), plant extinctions and so on.

The sex distribution in fishes is already of concern and it's not something to do with warming. I have read newspaper article a decade old that described it.

Funnily enough, it's also to do much with humans:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3450754654538943#

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/12/gender.sciencenews

what's even funnier is that science has led us to it. Science is responsible for BPA and science is responsible for global warming.

 

[rpg.314]

Jumping on half-truths and acting upon them is a bad thing.

Are you saying that global warming is a half-truth?

 

[gamervivek]

Are you saying that global warming is a half-truth?

I don't know, I haven't studied it.

edit: save for the plankton study earlier in this thread.

 

[corduroygt]

You can't help but chuckle when Global Warming summits get canceled due to winter storms Of course the new excuse is that every bad weather event is caused by humans and that pesky CO2 they release.

 

[KimB]

You can't help but chuckle when Global Warming summits get canceled due to winter storms Of course the new excuse is that every bad weather event is caused by humans and that pesky CO2 they release.

Additional warming increases the amount of snow that tends to fall in a given storm. It may reduce the number of storms that are cold enough to produce snow, but of those that do produce snow, it makes them worse.

 

[corduroygt]

Additional warming increases the amount of snow that tends to fall in a given storm. It may reduce the number of storms that are cold enough to produce snow, but of those that do produce snow, it makes them worse.

That's just the new tune AGW proponents are singing after the big snowstorms. Before than, it was only about deserts and flooding. However, the total yearly snowfall amount has increased as well in the US, so it's not about the same or less amount of snow being dumped in fewer storms, it's actually increased.

Since you're an XKCD fan, let me say that climate science would be all the way on the left on this graph for me, so I really don't respect much of it.
http://xkcd.com/435/

 

[Blazkowicz]

That's just the new tune AGW proponents are singing after the big snowstorms. Before than, it was only about deserts and flooding. However, the total yearly snowfall amount has increased as well in the US, so it's not about the same or less amount of snow being dumped in fewer storms, it's actually increased.

thus, more water evaporated. thanks!

 

[corduroygt]

thus, more water evaporated. thanks!

And it came back down, so I don't see any problems there...

 

[rpg.314]

And it came back down, so I don't see any problems there...

On one hand you say cold weather is not good for humans and on other hand you don't see a problem with more snowfall...

 

[rpg.314]

That's just the new tune AGW proponents are singing after the big snowstorms. Before than, it was only about deserts and flooding.

You find it to be a new tune because your head has been stuck up your ass for so long.

 

[KimB]

That's just the new tune AGW proponents are singing after the big snowstorms. Before than, it was only about deserts and flooding. However, the total yearly snowfall amount has increased as well in the US, so it's not about the same or less amount of snow being dumped in fewer storms, it's actually increased.

When will you get that the effects of global warming are many and varied? Global warming makes for stronger storms in general. This means rainstorms, snowstorms, whatever. They all get stronger, because more water is evaporated. If you look at the statistics, what's been happening over the last few decades is that a larger and larger fraction of precipitation has been falling in stronger storms.

And since the average global temperature has only risen by a little over 1F, the number of snowstorms hasn't changed that much, but the average snowfall during each one has increased. So yes, you can thank global warming for nasty winter weather as well.

There's also some speculation that the melting of the arctic sea ice makes weather patterns like this year's and last year's more common, which may well mean that global warming is actually making unusually cold winters more common in parts of the US, Europe, and Siberia (while warming up other places).

Since you're an XKCD fan, let me say that climate science would be all the way on the left on this graph for me, so I really don't respect much of it.

The problem is you don't know much of it. So it's really not your place to judge.

 

[dizietsma]

I wasn't sure weather (pun intended) to post this in this thread or the budget default thread, but here it goes.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2010/03/01/daily72.html

I really like this company, not only are they are a high tech silicon valley company, not only have they have a funky name but they show what the USA should be doing with green technology to become market leaders. It's this sort of thing that the USA and Europe needs to get our countries to be competitive again in the world market place, competing against low wages with clever ideas.

And it's good for the planet too.

 

[dizietsma]

When will you get that the effects of global warming are many and varied? Global warming makes for stronger storms in general. This means rainstorms, snowstorms, whatever. They all get stronger, because more water is evaporated. If you look at the statistics, what's been happening over the last few decades is that a larger and larger fraction of precipitation has been falling in stronger storms.

And since the average global temperature has only risen by a little over 1F, the number of snowstorms hasn't changed that much, but the average snowfall during each one has increased. So yes, you can thank global warming for nasty winter weather as well.

There's also some speculation that the melting of the arctic sea ice makes weather patterns like this year's and last year's more common, which may well mean that global warming is actually making unusually cold winters more common in parts of the US, Europe, and Siberia (while warming up other places).


The problem is you don't know much of it. So it's really not your place to judge.

True, big snow storms are more to do with the amount of moisture in the air than how cold it is so it is.

 

[corduroygt]

And since the average global temperature has only risen by a little over 1F, the number of snowstorms hasn't changed that much, but the average snowfall during each one has increased. So yes, you can thank global warming for nasty winter weather as well.

So what's the problem, we're not turning into deserts since all the evaporated water is coming back. Let the colder sections of the earth get warmer, that'll only make them more livable. Also good luck convincing most people by saying "The reason you have a harsh winter is global warming." You'll get laughed out.

The problem is you don't know much of it. So it's really not your place to judge.

They don't know much either, they play with their data to get the results they want. I mean when they flat out tell you that you're not going to get grants unless you show there's AGW, what do you expect the scientists to do?

 

[corduroygt]

You find it to be a new tune because your head has been stuck up your ass for so long.

I've been enjoying V8 powered muscle cars for 9 years before I finally got bored of them, guilt free. I even used to rev my engine higher whenever I passed a Prius so they could hear it and wipe the smug off their faces. Of course those were the cheap gas days, which aren't coming back. Today, I got a new, 33% more efficient water heater installed because I didn't want to risk it breaking down and flooding the place.

CO2 reduction only makes sense if it saves money. If it costs money, I'm not paying for it, not a cent. I am very happy that my lifestyle and views piss off dirty hippies like you.

 

[FUDie]

So what's the problem, we're not turning into deserts since all the evaporated water is coming back. Let the colder sections of the earth get warmer, that'll only make them more livable. Also good luck convincing most people by saying "The reason you have a harsh winter is global warming." You'll get laughed out.

Only by people who don't understand that you get more snow when it's warmer and cloudy that when it's cold and clear.

-FUDie

 

[corduroygt]

I wasn't sure weather (pun intended) to post this in this thread or the budget default thread, but here it goes.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2010/03/01/daily72.html

I really like this company, not only are they are a high tech silicon valley company, not only have they have a funky name but they show what the USA should be doing with green technology to become market leaders. It's this sort of thing that the USA and Europe needs to get our countries to be competitive again in the world market place, competing against low wages with clever ideas.

And it's good for the planet too.

CO2 reduction does not matter one bit, it's an install that will pay for itself in 10 years and the rest is pure savings. That's a no brainer. You bet they wouldn't do it if it wasn't going to pay off financially.

 

[corduroygt]

Only by people who don't understand that you get more snow when it's warmer and cloudy that when it's cold and clear.

-FUDie

I said harsh winter, which means besides the snow, the temperatures are also well below average.