Apparantly the PSP2 exists.

[Prophecy2k]

I'm asking this because I genuinely don't have the foggiest idea.

If you took Cell and placed it on say a 32nm process, then clocked it down to 1Ghz, what would the FLOPS and power consumption be? Now do the same by removing 4 SPUs, what would we have then? What was the power consumption for the SPURS engine, 15W at 1.5GHz on a 65nm process?

EDIT: Also, what would be the FLOPS performance differential between a 4 SPE Cell running at 1Ghz and an 8 SPE Cell running at 500Mhz, and how does this compare to an ARM derived device?

Sony won't try to shoehorn a CELL processor into PSP2... the rumours relating to this are pure speculative nonsense. There isn't much(/any) benefit or any clear justification for doing such. A fast ARM-based mobile core would be a much better and cheaper option, would be far more efficient and would not break the bank for Sony in R&D costs.

CELL wasn't designed as a mobile core and it would be superfluous in a handheld. Too hot and power hunger (even at 32nm i'd expect) it would be a much better use of silicon to get a beefier GPU core.

PSP2 will have a monster GPU and a simple fast CPU. Sony doesn't want to go the exotic esoteric route for their handheld as they need the development platform to be straight forward and accessable to as many devs as possible.

The whole philosophy behind putting a CELL or down-scaled CELL variant in PSP2 is fundamentally flawed from the onset. You'd never have enough processing power to make downports of PS3 games trivial, and frankly you don't really want the PSP2 to be relegated to a "port-machine" in devs (and consumers) minds like the PSP was for a long time.

I think the next Sony home console will involve some sort of CELL derived cores, but their next handheld?... not so much ;-)

 

[Urian]

Do you know the die size of PSP main components? It could be a good data for speculation.

 

[Weaste]

A fast ARM-based mobile core would be a much better and cheaper option, would be far more efficient and would not break the bank for Sony in R&D costs.

CELL wasn't designed as a mobile core and it would be superfluous in a handheld. Too hot and power hunger (even at 32nm i'd expect) it would be a much better use of silicon to get a beefier GPU core.

Wasn't the whole point of Cell to provide the best bang for buck possible in terms of power per watt? The 4 SPE SPURS engine gives 48 GFLOP @ 1.5Ghz on a 65nm process.

The reason I'm asking the question is that from what I've read, an ARM10 at 300Mhz delivers around 400 MIPS and 600 MFLOPS.

Why would an ARM based processor be a better fit than a downclocked Cell derivative?

 

[Prophecy2k]

Wasn't the whole point of Cell to provide the best bang for buck possible in terms of power per watt? The 4 SPE SPURS engine gives 48 GFLOP @ 1.5Ghz on a 65nm process.

The reason I'm asking the question is that from what I've read, an ARM10 at 300Mhz delivers around 400 MIPS and 600 MFLOPS.

Why would an ARM based processor be a better fit than a downclocked Cell derivative?

One reason...

... Power consumption ;-)

 

[Weaste]

One reason...

... Power consumption ;-)

I quite understand that, which goes back to the original question. How much power would a 4 SPE Cell consume on 32nm and running say at 500Mhz? You didn't provide an answer to the hypothetical question. Also, how much processing power would such a downgraded Cell provide in relation to say a dual core ARM. It's not beyond the realms of possibility, and wouldn't cost much in terms of R&D - Toshiba basically already have one.

 

[Teasy]

They sure can

You know that I mean a handheld device yeah? Seriously though, you need to elaborate. What hardware do you see them using that would make PSP2 as technically superior to 3DS as PSP was to DS?

 

[Prophecy2k]

You know that I mean a handheld device yeah? Seriously though, you need to elaborate. What hardware do you see them using that would make PSP2 as technically superior to 3DS as PSP was to DS?

Well if you introduce that restraint then i have to agree with you ;-) lol...

In terms of raw processing performance, and without them making the PSP2 the size of a small laptop, i agree there isn't much out there at the moment that could provide them with the sheer gulf in performance that existed between the PSP and the DS.

However from what i hear about the PSP2 it's rather close... but at the same time, given the architecture of the 3DS, the end result may not actually be so pronounced given that it's all fixed function hardware.

If any dev actually decides to port the same game to both platforms, i'd actually be very very curious to see the results

 

[patsu]

Haven't Sony said they're not pursuing 3D in PSP2? I think it was said earlier in this thread.

I remember Kaz Hirai mentioned this soon after 3DS leaked.

However, Stringer and Kaz also commented in CES 2011 that they could add 3D to their tablet/pad hardware to differentiate from the competition.

So… if PSP2 is a pad/tablet, then it may be in.

The ludicrous one's like PSP2 being a portable PS3 are clearly nonsense, but this suggestion sounds about right. 3DS isn't a monster under the hood, and if Sony really want to take the crown for portable power, they could fit in enough hardware to make a mighty device, but at some serious compromises elsewhere in the overall package.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/42499/PSP2-as-powerful-as-PS3-set-for-Q4-launch

Sony has told licensees the device ‘is as powerful as the PlayStation 3’.

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/psp2-“as-powerful-as-ps3”

Reports today claim that Sony’s long-rumoured PSP successor is as powerful as the PlayStation 3, with a source confirming to us this morning that the leaks are a “reasonable description” of the device’s capability.

I wonder if it means PSP2 can run PS3 games via RemotePlay. XD

 

[Xenus]

It's maybe power wise compared to the 3DS as the DS was to the PSP but that doesn't mean the apparent gap will be that large and also that comment conflicts with the so called portable PS3 they are claiming. If I had to guess it's closer to a portable PS2 with in power with modern gpu tech inside.

 

[patsu]

iPad 2 is said to have a 4x graphical performance jump:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/more-details-emerge-on-apples-a5-chip-for-upcoming-ipad-2-and-i/

So, AppleInsider has some new info on Apple's successor to the A4, which we were talking up last week, and our sources say it's spot on. Specifically, AI claims that Apple is moving to dual-core SGX543 graphics, up from the A4's single SGX535 GPU (also known as the PowerVR 535). What's particularly great about this move is that the graphical power improvement is rated at around 4X the current generation

…

apparently the PSP 2 is rumored to use the same graphics architecture with even more cores. Isn't Moore's law a grand thing?

The old PSP2 + PowerVR rumor cited was:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/07/psp2-to-be-based-on-iphone-esque-powervr-gpu-rival-original-xbo/

 

[TheChefO]

iPad 2 is said to have a 4x graphical performance jump:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/more-details-emerge-on-apples-a5-chip-for-upcoming-ipad-2-and-i/



The old PSP2 + PowerVR rumor cited was:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/07/psp2-to-be-based-on-iphone-esque-powervr-gpu-rival-original-xbo/

If this story is true, the irony of Sony using PowerVR is just too much.

 

[lwill]

It's maybe power wise compared to the 3DS as the DS was to the PSP but that doesn't mean the apparent gap will be that large and also that comment conflicts with the so called portable PS3 they are claiming. If I had to guess it's closer to a portable PS2 with in power with modern gpu tech inside.

The 3DS is around that power range, so the PSP2 should be alot stronger than that. There are a few issues though:

1) There is a very large power gap between the PS2 and PS3, so realistically the PSP2 may have problems even reaching half to the PS3's power in a portable unit.

2) If the HD-screen rumor is true, the PSP2 may have a similar resolution (or greater in some case) to PS3 games. If true, the PSP2 will not be able to take advantage of having a lower resolution display than its console counterpart, unlike the DS, PSP, and 3DS.

Due to that, a generational difference between the visual appearance of 3DS and PSP2 games seems doesn't seem realistic, especially with the shader capabilities of the 3DS.

That aside, would the PSP2 still be able to get visuals close to 1st generation PS3/360 games?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

2) If the HD-screen rumor is true, the PSP2 may have a similar resolution (or greater in some case) to PS3 games. If true, the PSP2 will not be able to take advantage of having a lower resolution display than its console counterpart, unlike the DS, PSP, and 3DS.

Surely if this gen has taught us anything, it's "upscaling FTW!"

 

[Lazy8s]

PSP2 will be A9 quad and either 543MP4 or MP8.

 

[patsu]

How do you know ? ^_^

 

[Lazy8s]

Seems like an obvious extrapolation.

 

[patsu]

I was hoping you have insider info.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

​

2) If the HD-screen rumor is true, the PSP2 may have a similar resolution (or greater in some case) to PS3 games. If true, the PSP2 will not be able to take advantage of having a lower resolution display than its console counterpart, unlike the DS, PSP, and 3DS.

I'd be really surprised if PSP2 ended up with a screen closer to 720p than 480p. And even then, as Shifty mentioned, upscaling FTW.

Packing the power of a PS3 into a handheld is already going to pose problems with battery life. Throwing in a high pixel density screen is only going to exacerbate the issue.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

Is it possible to change screen resolution on the fly ? They don't really have to maintain the same resolution throughout.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Sure, but while that will decrease power used by the GPU, the LCD will still need to drive the same number of pixels. Although there may be some benefit to larger numbers of pixels potentially remaining the same from frame to frame. Granted, the backlighting will be the majority of the power used, but in a handheld, every little bit you can save is going to be desired, IMO.

Regards,
SB