NVIDIA GF100 & Friends speculation

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

The surface area isn't increased much by the slight corrugation. Yes, it will radiate somewhat, but it's not a tremendous departure from previous designs.

The difference is that it is not merely a plastic shroud that forces the air through the fins and out the exhaust as with most of these shrouded designs. It is actually another radiating surface that will take heat away from the heatsink and the hot air going through it. It replaces a non-radiating surface with a radiating one.

Looking at how the metal side parts of even a 48xx/58xx series heatsink can get too hot to touch, I think this will get very hot indeed, especially with 250w + to dissipate. That's what it's designed to do.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

If it were, would you be able to move the fins? I think not, right?

Why would you want to move the fins? Fins are not meant to move.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I suspect BZB was waxing negative about the lack of a plastic shroud over the heatsink, not the plastic bit around the fan that was removed for the photo shoot. The heatsink definitely looks robust which is fine but of all things that could be wrong with a graphics card a loud fan is near the top of my list.

If I can hear my GFX card fan over the 700 watt (combined) speakers I have, i would be more worried about the airpressure such a fan would make

Performance (in games) is my "stick" for GFX cards...stuff like power, noise, size ect have no bearing for me...in high-end gaming

This isn't a HTCP card

 

[CarstenS]

The difference is that it is not merely a plastic shroud that forces the air through the fins and out the exhaust as with most of these shrouded designs. It is actually another radiating surface that will take heat away from the heatsink and the hot air going through it. It replaces a non-radiating surface with a radiating one.

From what was explained (radiating surface, not much more compared to fins already in place) I'd conclude this metal plate is there to radiate heat into the case, possibly utilizing the case's airflow. And this without having to rely on the fan of the card itself, right?

Why would you want to move the fins? Fins are not meant to move.

Not because I need to. But if it were soldered/welded onto the fins, they'd be not very flexible, right`?

 

[GZ007]

Do you think in the near future we will start seeing nvidia/amd/otherIHV pushing for water cooled stock designs?

We really arent far off from reality becomming something like this with 1,2+ fans.

I mean these fan based heatsinks are getting more complex, why just not start pushing water cooling as a standard. At least we'd get rid of the noise and not have to worry about dust.

You need to ask first AMD and Nvidia why they need to use the litle loud low cfm blowers.
Non reference cards with normal fans run almost always cooler nad quiter than those litle loud suckers. CFM > air pressure.

 

[Tchock]

Funny that the general consensus wrt power consumption and noise have changed so radically- look at pre/post R600 and now.

Or is it just the IHV...

 

[MrBelmontvedere]

definitely the beefiest cooler I've ever seen on a reference design card.

 

[stevem]

You need to ask first AMD and Nvidia why they need to use the litle loud low cfm blowers.
Non reference cards with normal fans run almost always cooler nad quiter than those litle loud suckers. CFM > air pressure.

Keeping good airflow through dense fins/channels/ducts enclosed in a shroud & venting out of the case means that for packaging & efficiency a centrifugal fan is better than axial. Axial will give you ~3x CFM for commensurate size & power, but can only drive ~1/3 the pressure of centrifugal => low rear exhaust flow. Both @ similar noise levels.

 

[Kurt]

Any word on GF104/6? Are they real, do they have "launch dates" yet? Could they be interesting parts and if not, why not? I want something to replace a GTS640 (it is quiet but too power-hungry and I want a single-slot)
AMD is of course an option but not here, not now.

 

[rpg.314]

Any word on GF104/6? Are they real, do they have "launch dates" yet? Could they be interesting parts and if not, why not? I want something to replace a GTS640 (it is quiet but too power-hungry and I want a single-slot)
AMD is of course an option but not here, not now.

If you believe Charlie, then the first fermi derivative is gonna be the lamest one, gf108. ETA: july/august.

 

[Kurt]

If you believe Charlie, then the first fermi derivative is gonna be the lamest one, gf108. ETA: july/august.

That would be the 5200FX equivalent, presumably? If so, thanks, but no, I'd rather wait for the 5900XT

 

[MrBelmontvedere]

Fuad says "mainstream" Fermis are coming this summer. just a rumor, though.

 

[DeF]

The top portion of the 480 heatsink certainly doesn't look like it is extruded unless they extruded and then CNC'd which is way out of whack cost wise. It is either die case or press cast. Certainly we're seen both ATI and Nvidia use Press/Die cast parts in the past (think back to the Nvidia heat spreaders with the conical pins which would require way too much material to do in an extrude/CNC manner.)

Considering these are roughly 2D designs with minimal 3D structures, something like gravity casting is perfectly reasonable. The reality is that casting in china is a lot cheaper than ANY CNC machine work will ever be. Don't know if you've ever seen them, but there was a great photo set from the factory in china that was ripping off the Zalman flower heatsinks a couple years back. All manual labor with things like dulled butcher knifes as spacing tools.

CNC manufacturing doesn't have to be very expensive. Simple operations on extruded parts can give you (much) better efficiency vs casted parts that need additional work (i know this cause company i work for manufactures awnings that consist of extruded, casted and pressed alu parts).
I remember that one ATI heatsink from power section of HD4850 (reference design).

This is definitely too perfect (pins) to be gravity casted. I would guess that the pins are soldered/welded as CNC would be too expensive.
Anyway i think you are right with the GTX 480 cooler. When i looked at it second time i noticed that at the top of the cooler its just a small plate that does look like gravity casted on different image (side view). Edges are too uneven and that suggest gravity casting. And yeah, doing something like that in China is dirt cheap.
At first i though that this heatsink is made of single piece of material. That's why i thought this might be extruded as that would be cheap and look well. Now i see that there are two parts - casted plate and soldered/welded fins below with heatpipes.

 

[GZ007]

Keeping good airflow through dense fins/channels/ducts enclosed in a shroud & venting out of the case means that for packaging & efficiency a centrifugal fan is better than axial. Axial will give you ~3x CFM for commensurate size & power, but can only drive ~1/3 the pressure of centrifugal => low rear exhaust flow. Both @ similar noise levels.

The problem is that until the air reach the end of the fins the air is already hot and that with low airflow. The axial fan needs to cool only the fins under the fan and that with much more air. Arctic Cooling coolers use only axial fans and they are much better than any centrifugal fan. Its strange that the AC coolers can keep the cards much cooler and quiter than the reference cards with blowers. And with high air flow the air escaping from the fins is just moderatly warm so u dont need any exhaust with complicated design.

 

[DeF]

How would you optically notice a difference between an extruded metal surface against whatever else it'd look like?

Its sometimes hard to say but gravity casted elements usually have uneven edges/surfaces (general quality is not great and visible defects are possible). You will also have marks on the parts where two sides of the pattern (this affects also pressure casting to some degree).
Pressure casting gives much much better results but is also much much much more expensive (especially the tools/patterns).
Extrusion is quite cheap but not every shape is possible. You can create details with very complex cross sections in form of long profiles. So there is always work needed to at least cut that into slices (sometimes CNC is also required). Also extrusion gives you smooth surfaces that dont need finishing.

PS
Oh and if you need long fins to increase your heat dissipation area there are only two ways: extrusion (for thicker fins) and soldering/welding of multiple thin metal plates.

 

[Dave Baumann]

This is definitely too perfect (pins) to be gravity casted. I would guess that the pins are soldered/welded as CNC would be too expensive.

No the pinned area is a single cast.

 

[MfA]

And with high air flow the air escaping from the fins is just moderatly warm

It's heated up moderately ... how warm it is depends on the intake air temperature, which will rise depending how good the internal case airflow is.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Water + Electricity = ??????

I think someone hasn't ever worked customer service or tech support.

You took the thought right out of my head.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Performance (in games) is my "stick" for GFX cards...stuff like power, noise, size ect have no bearing for me...in high-end gaming

This isn't a HTCP card

True, but leaf blowers still have no places in a PC.

 

[trinibwoy]

If I can hear my GFX card fan over the 700 watt (combined) speakers I have, i would be more worried about the airpressure such a fan would make

Well driving yourself deaf isn't an excuse for a loud graphics card. I play my games loud enough for my neighbours to complain (I live in a townhouse) and I still hear my 285 if it gets too warrm.