By that logic, the teams should not provide the drivers with cars.
Formula 1 - 2010 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
Silent_Buddha
Legend
What? The constructors championship is a team trophy, thus teamwork, thus it doesn't matter where the drivers end up and drivers should help each other to finish high if possible. But doesn't matter where each driver ends up relative to each other.
The driver's championship is an individual trophy seperate from the team trophy. Drivers should be allowed and encouraged to strive for that. Wanting to be the best makes the driver better. I'd suggest that any driver that does not want to win the driver's trophy should just quit and get out of F1 right now as they are doing noone any favors.
Team orders that influence a driver's ability to win an INDIVIDUAL trophy should be punished, IMO. That is pure selfishness by the corporate entity that runs the team.
There's a reason there's 2 different seasonal championships, one for the team and one for the driver.
Any driver that wins the driver's championship due to team orders telling the other driver to back off basically didn't earn that championship.
Regards,
SB
Silent_Buddha
Legend
In which case a team won't win the team/constructors championship. Way to chop off your own leg in selfishness to make a point.
Regards,
SB
So if vettel lets webber pass him, then webber didn't earn it, right?
As for the constructors, alonso finishing ahead of massa has no effect on the number of constructors points.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
The only reason we have a constructors championship is to decide where the money goes. WDC is where the real prestige for the team and drivers is.
Well, that's hyperbole for you. My point was that if the teams build optimised one-off cars for their drivers, that could be seen as manipulation of the drivers' championship just as team orders can be.
Which is stupid.
If you really think this, you cannot follow F1 because your statement involves every single champion ever.
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
If he Vettel has to be ordered to move over, Webber obviously wasn't the better driver.
Regards,
SB
On that day.
I would add to that the issue of building a car for specific driver needs. In case of old Ferrari we had red cars build specifically to suit MS driving style.
This year RB6 was modified mid season to suit better Vettel driving style. Specifically they modified blown diffuser and engine maps so it generates smoother downforce transition going from full throttle to off throttle.
Mark had advantage over Vettel in first half of the season because his driving style could better handle this rear end change of grip.
Im sure many drivers won titles without their team mate having to move over, jenson for one, iirc villeneuve as well
Okay, but that is a rarity. Most champions have benefited from team orders.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Team orders over the radio? maybe not. But over the years I've seen more than enough cases of one driver conveniently getting past his teammate with well planned pitstops.
Anyway I'm getting kinda tired of the whole 7 points debate. It's useless. If you think its not fair just stop watching F1 because things like these happend since forever in F1. Besides that it was also very logical. Massa had little chance of winning the WDC, Alonso does have that chance. 1+1 anyone?
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Why would I? If Vettel can't win the WDC and Webber can, than why wouldn't he let him pass? He has nothing to lose by doing so but the team will gain from having won the WDC and even if he doesn't like Webber winning the WDC must be something very special and I doubt Vettel won't move over just so that Webber won't win. I don't see anything wrong with that, just maximizing the results. If F1 really was a individual sport than teams wouldn't be racing 2 cars.
exactly.
I hope Alonso wins the title, but if he can't, I hope Webber wins. If Webber does win, he will be the second Minardi F1 champion, the first one being Alonso. 
I am not a huge fan of Vettel, though I admire his speed, but he will also be a worthy champion. I will also think better of him if he sportingly lets Webber through. It will be a gesture of great magnanimity and I am sure Webber will graciously accept it. Vettel will have more chances for the title, I am sure. Webber too but maybe not.
Alonso has been in 4 title battles in the last 6 years, in 3 different chassis, which shows just what he can do. He can do it again if he doesn't win this one.
I am not a huge fan of Vettel, though I admire his speed, but he will also be a worthy champion. I will also think better of him if he sportingly lets Webber through. It will be a gesture of great magnanimity and I am sure Webber will graciously accept it. Vettel will have more chances for the title, I am sure. Webber too but maybe not.
Alonso has been in 4 title battles in the last 6 years, in 3 different chassis, which shows just what he can do. He can do it again if he doesn't win this one.
What a delectable Q3. Vettel and Hamilton did outstanding lap times, while Alonso pulled out one important lap time getting ahead of Webber on the grid.
Code:
[B]Pos Driver Car Q1 Q2 Q3[/B]
1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m40.318s 1m39.874s 1m39.394s
2. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m40.335s 1m40.119s 1m39.425s
3. Alonso Ferrari 1m40.170s 1m40.311s 1m39.792s
4. Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m40.877s 1m40.014s 1m39.823s
5. Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m40.690s 1m40.074s 1m39.925s
6. Massa Ferrari 1m40.942s 1m40.323s 1m40.202s
7. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m40.904s 1m40.476s 1m40.203s
8. Schumacher Mercedes 1m41.222s 1m40.452s 1m40.516s
9. Rosberg Mercedes 1m40.231s 1m40.060s 1m40.589s
10. Petrov Renault 1m41.018s 1m40.658s 1m40.901s
11. Kubica Renault 1m41.336s 1m40.780s
12. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m41.045s 1m40.783s
13. Sutil Force India-Ferrari 1m41.473s 1m40.914s
14. Heidfeld Sauber-Ferrari 1m41.409s 1m41.113s
15. Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 1m41.015s 1m41.418s
16. Liuzzi Force India-Ferrari 1m41.681s 1m41.642s
17. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m41.707s 1m41.738s
18. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m41.824s
19. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 1m43.516s
20. Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 1m43.712s
21. Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1m44.095s
22. di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 1m44.510s
23. Senna Hispania-Cosworth 1m45.085s
24. Klien Hispania-Cosworth 1m45.296s
[I]All timing unofficial[/I]
