Formula 1 - 2010 Season

[tongue_of_colicab]

I think it's very frustrating that Ferrari only got a fine for using team orders to get Alonso ahead of Massa earlier in the year, and now Alonso stands a significantly better chance of winning the championship as a result. I think it's pretty obvious that there has not been any team orders going on @ Red Bull, and as a result they are in a much riskier situation in tersm of having the world champion.

Basically if mark comes first in Abu Dabi, and then Alonso ends up winning the championship - it will because Ferrari cheated earlier in the year - and all they got was a stupid fine.
(i'm sure the ppl at red bull are thinking the same thing)

I'm not saying i agree with the rules, but rules are rules, and they should be penalized more strongly for breaking them i think. I'd still love to see Vettel Take Alonso out in the first corner of the next race.

Bullshit. For example, why did they took the wing off Webbers car and put it on Vettels? Horner even said that was because Vettel had more points than Webber at the time! So no team orders my ass. The point with RBR is that some people in Austria rather lose the WDC than let Webber win it. Besides that teamorders are very normal (even if the rules don't allow them) and anybody that keeps whining about how Alonso might win the WDC by ''cheating'' is just a pathetic person.

On the point of ''cheating'', how about all the points Alonso lost because of bad steward desicions? For example the time Hamilton held him up behind the SC and basically screwed his easy podium finish. If you're going to count up all those points it comes up a lot higher than the 7 he got from passing Massa.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It would be kind of amusing if Alonso's lead in the championship, won in part by illegal team orders, was cancelled in the last race by Vettel moving to one side to let Webber through, say in the last lap.

Or better yet if Vettel took out Alonso in the first corner before cars start reaching dangerous speeds, ala Senna vs Prost way back when. Although I'm sure in this day and age that would end up in significant fines and other penalties and perhaps forfeiting the championship (MFG and Drivers).

Still it would be amusing in a way.

Regards,
SB

 

[Mariner]

Or better yet if Vettel took out Alonso in the first corner before cars start reaching dangerous speeds, ala Senna vs Prost way back when. Although I'm sure in this day and age that would end up in significant fines and other penalties and perhaps forfeiting the championship (MFG and Drivers).

Still it would be amusing in a way.

Regards,
SB

Or even better, Hamilton, realising he can't win the championship, takes out Alonso...

Now that would be funny.

 

[Kaotik]

Or even better, Hamilton, realising he can't win the championship, takes out Alonso...

Now that would be funny.

This one gets my vote!

 

[infinity4]

If it was Vettel-Webber-Alonso going into last 2 laps, Vettel moves over for Webber, then on the last lap Vettel finds out Alonso engine blown out, meaning if he overtakes Webber, he becomes champion. Does that mean Webber will have to move over for Vettel to finish where he deserves to finish or else he will have his contract terminated?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I'm sure Webber won't care if RBR terminates his contract if he becomes WDC. He's already a older driver and not planning on just sticking around for the hell of it (like rubens) so if he's ever going to be WDC, he will have to do it this year.

 

[Bludd]

Webber needs to win. If the Red Bull boss is to be believed, there will be no team orders so either Vettel will have to do it himself (I doubt it, but hey maybe). If they do have team orders, why didn't they do it in Brazil? It would have made it easier.

So if they don't swap Vettel for Webber if that is the order at the last few laps of the race, they will be stupid. If they do swap them, it proves they favoured Vettel because if they didn't, they would have swapped them at the Brazil race.

Go Alonso!

 

[RobertR1]

If Vettel is leading Webber on the last lap and Alonso is 3rd, I expect Vettel to let Mark through without team orders.

If Vettel doesn't and Alsono wins by 7 points or less then it's quite a black mark on the sport.

 

[AlphaWolf]

If Vettel is leading Webber on the last lap and Alonso is 3rd, I expect Vettel to let Mark through without team orders.

If Vettel doesn't and Alsono wins by 7 points or less then it's quite a black mark on the sport.

So its fine if the driver voluntarily lets him through, but if the team orders it it's terrible for the sport? Just so we're clear.

 

[Bludd]

If Vettel is leading Webber on the last lap and Alonso is 3rd, I expect Vettel to let Mark through without team orders.

If Vettel doesn't and Alsono wins by 7 points or less then it's quite a black mark on the sport.

Nah, it's not really. It is RBR's stupidity which is at fault if Vettel doesn't let Webber through and Alonso wins. If they hadn't crashed in Turkey, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Also Alonso said in Silverstone that he was going to win the championship and he's had a stormer of a second part of the season.

 

[vjPiedPiper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR1 View Post
If Vettel is leading Webber on the last lap and Alonso is 3rd, I expect Vettel to let Mark through without team orders.

If Vettel doesn't and Alsono wins by 7 points or less then it's quite a black mark on the sport.
So its fine if the driver voluntarily lets him through, but if the team orders it it's terrible for the sport? Just so we're clear.

As stupid as it is, that's how i see things.
Although i never said anything about team order being bad for the sport - just *currently* against the rules.

 

[Phil]

Bullshit. For example, why did they took the wing off Webbers car and put it on Vettels?

There's a difference between benefiting one of your drivers with newer/better equipment and doing team-orders. One has presedent and is explicitly in the rules, the other isn't. I'm not arguing one or the other, but there is an obvious difference.

 

[Phil]

Anyway, IMO the race was good until it got ruined by the safety car. Webber was inching closer to Vettel with every lap right up until he was ~1.5 seconds behind and the SC came out with two backmarkers in the way. That brought the gap eventually to over 3 seconds with only a few laps to go. It would have been fun to watch how Webber may have put Vettel under more pressure and see what would have happened. What a pitty.

Last race will be very interesting:

Alonso needs a 2nd place to win WDC or 4th, if Webber isn't winning.
Vettel needs a win if Webber is in second.
Webber pretty much needs the win with Alonso not better than 3rd.
Hamilton only has a chance if Alonso pretty much DNF and wins the race with Webber far down in the points.

I do think however that if it rains, Vettel or Alonso might have the better cards of the lot. I think Hamilton could play a significant role in Vettels chances - that is, if he gets in front of Alonso. Not sure if the McLaren is good enough. If it's a dry race, RedBull look extremely strong.

 

[Kaotik]

He probably couldn't have passed Vettel at any point, towards end of the race Webbers engine was overheating and they had to tune it down quite notably

 

[Bludd]

No, basically the race in Brazil was a snoozer. Let's hope the last one will be good.

 

[RobertR1]

So its fine if the driver voluntarily lets him through, but if the team orders it it's terrible for the sport? Just so we're clear.

Yep. A driver choosing to let his teammate go through is a personal decision and one of sportsmanship. The team forcing and demanding one driver to give way is quite the opposite. The latter can also have a pretty heavy psychological effect on the driver, which I rarely see mentioned.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Yep. A driver choosing to let his teammate go through is a personal decision and one of sportsmanship. The team forcing and demanding one driver to give way is quite the opposite. The latter can also have a pretty heavy psychological effect on the driver, which I rarely see mentioned.

Yes, if the guy is a selfish prick it will hurt his self esteem greatly, but if he's a team player it has no effect as he will be happy at what his team accomplished.

It really seems to be splitting hairs to me, you either have rules that force every man for himself, or you allow teamwork.

Red Bulls principle coming out and saying they expect vettel to do whats right for the team, but they won't issue orders, to me sounds exactly the same as issuing an order.

 

[RobertR1]

Yes, if the guy is a selfish prick it will hurt his self esteem greatly, but if he's a team player it has no effect as he will be happy at what his team accomplished.

It really seems to be splitting hairs to me, you either have rules that force every man for himself, or you allow teamwork.

Red Bulls principle coming out and saying they expect vettel to do whats right for the team, but they won't issue orders, to me sounds exactly the same as issuing an order.

You don't get to that level of competition without being "selfish." All drivers have ego's. It's a big part of what helps them get there. Senna/Prost/Schumacher/Alonso etc. are all ego driven.

While the end result might be the same, choose/forced can do much for a drivers ego.

 

[Lightman]

For me F1 in todays form is a TEAM sport therefore I do not consider team orders to be something bad. I'm one of those voting for removing team orders ban from rule book.

This will create more open and honest environment than we currently have.

So if Alonso wins WDC by 1 point this will be fair by me. I'm rooting for Webber this round TBH because he is more of an underdog (less so than Vettel), but Alonso drives really well lately so he deserves it as much as any other good driver in F1. I just hope WDC won't be decided by mechanical failure of any of remaining contenders and they will fight it on the track.

 

[RobertR1]

F1 is a team sport and for the TEAM there is the constructors title. The drivers title does not need to be manipulated.