Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2014]

[AlNom]

In the single player comparison it says for the last screenshot comparison:



But there's a distinct lack of clarity in several places on XBO that I don't think can be fully explained by the slight difference in camera angle or gamma issue.

That screenshot is actually not 1920x1080 on XO.

Also, these two shots do have the exact same camera composition but the shadows look glitchy on the XBO side.

That's the sort of shadowmap caster-to-receiver-distance issue that plagues any game. There are seemingly known bugs with shadowmapping regards shadowmapping on PS4 as well. Shadowmapping in games are far from perfect.

 

[Globalisateur]

Yah, what is with the contrast/gamma difference?

It's the usual crushed blacks present in most XB1 multiplats games. It's noticeable on almost all XB1 screenshots.

DF mention the crushed blacks, carefully hidden in one of the screenshot's comments:

Unfortunately, darker areas on the Xbox One are slightly crushed, despite both platforms being set to the same brightness setting.

Many people would disagree on the adverb "slightly". But at least it pops.

 

[Scott_Arm]

But what causes it? There are games that have well defined blacks/greys.

 

[Cyan]

But what causes it? There are games that have well defined blacks/greys.

This quote from Rockster in another thread might have the answer you seek.

Yeah, this problem seems to be endemic to people on PC monitors and using external capture cards; due to the default gamma curve being setup for 709, which doesn't properly map to full range 0-255 RGB out. If you've gone through the calibration using the default TV limited 16-235 mode with a HDTV then results are going to be as intended.

Personally I've calibrated the TV and use Limited RGB, like most cinema and TV material and stuff, and I've never ever had a black crush problem playing Xbox One games ever since.

It was pretty common on the X360 'cos I was confused with the Standard, Intermediate and Extended RGB options, but on Xbox One I used the recommended settings --the console dashboard says and recommends clearly to use Limited RGB.

 

[orangpelupa]

cant the TV, console, and capture card simply talk to each other using HDMI CEC?

Console: Hey TV, im running on Limited RGB.
TV: Roger!

 

[Rurouni]

I think I want the console to follow the TV settings and not the other way around. The reasoning is because I don't like adjusting/calibrating every single equipment when I want to use it and my HDMI connections on TV is very limited (2!), thus needing a HDMI switch. So it would be nice if whatever equipment respect the TV settings. With settings I mean it isn't just limited/full RGB, but the other setting (brightness, contrast, colour, etc).

 

[Deleted member 11852]

cant the TV, console, and capture card simply talk to each other using HDMI CEC? Console: Hey TV, im running on Limited RGB. TV: Roger!

This doesn't even require CEC (mostly remote control pass through), negotiating optimum audio and video settings between content provider and content display/capture is basic HDMI. I've always set my devices to 'auto' and let the hardware sort it out. That way games and Blu-ray Discs automatically look right, including discs that support YCbCr.

 

[deckard]

I've noticed that they have toned down motion blur quite significantly since the E3 reveal in my opinion. It probably is for gameplay purpose though because it's still there in all its form ie. object, camera and radial blur, just that it seems to be used only under specific scenarios and in certain sections it is more heavy than usual. But in some cases it's gone for good and I don't see any gameplay implications, such as the drone swarm in E3 video had object motion blur and it was apparent even in low quality videos but it isn't there in the final game.

No it is most definitely there and as strong as it was in the E3 reveal, this game is identical to that reveal, even the X1 version has the same MotionBlur present and it a superb implementation of it. The realtime cinematics obviously up that even higher along with DoF though which is expected.

 

[nightshade]

No it is most definitely there and as strong as it was in the E3 reveal, this game is identical to that reveal, even the X1 version has the same MotionBlur present and it a superb implementation of it. The realtime cinematics obviously up that even higher along with DoF though which is expected.

Yea but like I said you don't see it when the drone swarm comes, unless it is so subtle and well implemented that you don't even notice it.

 

[deckard]

Yea but like I said you don't see it when the drone swarm comes, unless it is so subtle and well implemented that you don't even notice it.

You do, if you stand and stare by the car as you grab the door, it is just as strong. Pause the DF video to see it in effect.

 

[nightshade]

You do, if you stand and stare by the car as you grab the door, it is just as strong. Pause the DF video to see it in effect.

I also took a screenshot while turning the camera at full speed in one level and didn't see any camera blur, but saw it in some level.
I'll check again, especially with the swarm.

 

[AlNom]

Wouldn't mind seeing some pics uploaded. There's quite the lengthy document from siggraph concerning their post-processing (including motion blur & DOF).

 

[Rockster]

This doesn't even require CEC (mostly remote control pass through), negotiating optimum audio and video settings between content provider and content display/capture is basic HDMI. I've always set my devices to 'auto' and let the hardware sort it out. That way games and Blu-ray Discs automatically look right, including discs that support YCbCr.

That is not correct. There are no components of hdmi signaling responsible for negotiatiing gamma curve or rgb ranges to use. It only specifies for the color space and depth to use.

 

[TheWretched]

Really no RGB range? It would be strange to me then, that PS4 for example has an "automatic" setting for RGB range, if it had no idea what the TV would want.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Really no RGB range? It would be strange to me then, that PS4 for example has an "automatic" setting for RGB range, if it had no idea what the TV would want.

My PS4 seems to have no idea in that regard indeed. The auto setting guesses the color range wrong every time.

 

[Globalisateur]

Really no RGB range? It would be strange to me then, that PS4 for example has an "automatic" setting for RGB range, if it had no idea what the TV would want.

PS4 "Automatic" settings means "set to limited, hoping the TV will be also set to limited, if the TV is full then we pray that it sends a signal to the PS4 that it should also use full (fingers crossed)".

It's best to manually set it accordingly on both devices.

 

[Arwin]

My PS4 seems to have no idea in that regard indeed. The auto setting guesses the color range wrong every time.

Probably your TVs fault ...

 

[Scott_Arm]

The reports of black crush on Xbox One are confusing. I thought Killer Instinct looked like it had black crush at release, and same with Dead Rising. My xbox and tv are set to limited range. Other games don't appear to have black crush, but others are reporting that they do. Is it the tv and console settings? If so, why did I see really screwed up black levels/gamma in Dead Rising and Killer Instinct but not in Sunset Overdrive or other games people are talking about?

And if everything is good at limited range, why aren't sites like DF doing their captures at limited range like the calibration tool recommends?

 

[AlNom]

The reports of black crush on Xbox One are confusing. I thought Killer Instinct looked like it had black crush at release, and same with Dead Rising. My xbox and tv are set to limited range. Other games don't appear to have black crush, but others are reporting that they do. Is it the tv and console settings? If so, why did I see really screwed up black levels/gamma in Dead Rising and Killer Instinct but not in Sunset Overdrive or other games people are talking about?

I'm not sure how it is now, but at least according to the SO dev, there was a bug in the SDK regarding the HW upscaler that has supposedly been fixed. The games that avoid the crushing seem to all not use the HW scaler, opting for their own solution in the render-display chain.

BF4 - originally crushed, patched to use their own scaling solution.
Ryse - software scale

And if everything is good at limited range, why aren't sites like DF doing their captures at limited range like the calibration tool recommends?

On a side note, maybe capture & console settings should be re-iterated for every article as well. Easy thing to forget for readers, but also easy to just copy/pasta if the author is using the same thing all the time.

 

[Rockster]

Scott, what kind of display do you have? This has never been easy enough for consumers because the terminology between manufactures and what settings do what varies so wildly. I assume your Xbox is set to "TV Color Space" (ie. limited) but how do you know the TV is also set correctly, is there a limited/full rgb setting? On my TV the option which controls that is called "black level" which seems retarded to me. The other factor at play here is gamma, and so if you do have the range matched, your gamma setting could still be off. If you have those right, and then calibrate brightness/contrast/etc. you should be in good shape. I don't have any problems with the titles you mentioned.

This other wrench I've see thrown in here because TV manufactures often default to a picture with extremely high contrast levels in order for them to look more pleasing when hung on a wall in a bright store are global mode types. Some TV's have "DEMO" and "HOME" mode options during setup to allow easier transition between store and home use and applying reasonable defaults for each. But when enabled, I've seen "DEMO" type modes prevent normal operation of TV settings.