New [H] editorial...

[CorwinB]

Not me. I think it is great that NVIDIA is back in the FM beta member fold. It is essential for a good and impartial FM benchmark application (regardless of how you view FM's benchmark applications, because we see its use), it is essential for a comprehensive-taking-opinions-from-all-sides approach to content development. Again, if you have never seen any value in 3DMark03 (for example), then this matters not a bit to you.

Sidetracking a bit off topic : many of you guys don't see any value in 3DMark03 mainly because you say it doesn't represent how games are made (or doesn't represent games at all per se). While I don't disagree with this, I think that is missing the actual picture, much like missing the picture of using various purely synthetic tests. Many folks tell me :

Well, I do see the value of 3DMark03 as a synthetic benchmarking tool (especially for individual test results), although I disagree with the "gamer's benchmark" title. Also, I certainly see value in IHVs participating to the beta program in good faith. But NV rejoining the Beta program after several months of dissing the benchmark (either directly or through the "guys with webpages" gang) and complaining about the price does not improve FutureMark's credibility at all, especially after the "it's only an optimization" backpedaling exercise... IMHO, NV rejoining the program would not be to actively and honestly participate in it, but rather to further destroy FM's credibility and bury 3DM before next year.

 

[SvP]

It's just a PR-move, they set a scene for R360 launch at the end of August. At that time HL2 benchmark also will be released. GeForce-line is poor at pixel shading performance-wise and when AA is enabled in HL2, their cards look so bad it's beyond belief.

What NVidia has to do is paint a very negative picture of themselves and they used trilinear filtering for that. When HL2 is benchmarked and everybody is convinced that NVidia is doomed (so to speak), they come up with new drivers and apologies etc. Suddenly Kyle, Anand, TomsHardware etc. are eager to give them a second chance.

"See - NVidia is good company. They really care about us. They listen to us. They apologied and fixed the filtering. Just wait for Det50 and HL2 performance will be top notch by the time the actual game is released. And their next card is SUPER and just around the corner".

Or something along the lines of that; just wait and see

 

[Dean]

Ooh.... that must have been a painful editorial to write. It's too little, too late but good to see nevertheless.

At least he seems to have stopped avoiding the real issues.

MuFu.

Its not necessarily too little, too late, when it comes to a change of heart. From what I gather from the editorial, Kyle did the community some good service by at least addressing the issue to Nvidia directly. Kyle did not publicly damn Nvidia because he is on good terms with them and they gave him alot of promises. Now he realizes that they basically lied to him. Kyle still has work ahead of him to regain trust, but IMO that editorial is a good step forward as it exposed his vulnerability that he can be led by the hand.

 

[martrox]

I have to say “BRAVO†to Kyle for this – it’s about time. And I have to agree with him on everything he said here – including the 3DM03 part – just not for the same reasons. Futuremark rolling over and becoming nVidias’ bitch has totally destroyed Futuremarks objectivity and reputation, and has basically made the benchmark useless when trying to compare products from different manufacturers.

As far as Kyle goes….well, it’s time to wave the olive branch, and give him the benefit of the doubt here. If he has a failing, it’s his pride and stubbornness – guess it goes with the “[H]ardâ€(ie. male ego/testosterone poisoning) thing…… . For those who have questioned his honesty, I think this more than covers it. However, this does bring up the realization (I hope you remember this, Kyle) about just how important it is for these websites to remain objective in all things. It’s the least you owe your readers.

 

[5150 Joker]

I have to say “BRAVO†to Kyle for this – it’s about time. And I have to agree with him on everything he said here – including the 3DM03 part – just not for the same reasons. Futuremark rolling over and becoming nVidias’ bitch has totally destroyed Futuremarks objectivity and reputation, and has basically made the benchmark useless when trying to compare products from different manufacturers.

As far as Kyle goes….well, it’s time to wave the olive branch, and give him the benefit of the doubt here. If he has a failing, it’s his pride and stubbornness – guess it goes with the “[H]ardâ€(ie. male ego/testosterone poisoning) thing…… . For those who have questioned his honesty, I think this more than covers it. However, this does bring up the realization (I hope you remember this, Kyle) about just how important it is for these websites to remain objective in all things. It’s the least you owe your readers.

So you honestly believe he's going to be objective from here on out? He did a huge disservice to his readers for months by leading them astray and I'm sure many spent a lot of money on these cards after paying attention to his ramblings. I wouldn't be so quick to forgive him...

 

[jb]

Rev,

normally I would agree in part with NV joining back to FM. However to me they seem like that Spolied Child we see at the stores. You know the one where he aks his mom for a candy bar, she says no, then the kid throws an un-holy temper tantrum, cries, throws stuff until sooner or later Mom finally gives in and gets the candy bar just to shut him up. I feel the same way here. Question is will NV do this again when they dont get their way in the future? What about ATI? Again having all major players on board is a good thing. However after what happened here, I will be a bit more cautious...

I am glad Kyle stood up for the consumer! He still needs to do more (like that B3D Police and banning dave still rubs me wrong).

 

[Sazar]

kyle has a good point or two... but they are the same points that have been echoed for ages around the web...

and it still irks me that we have to read all his trilinear/bilinear stuff which happens to be... IMO... an incorrect assessment... especially in light of benchmarking... to get to his point...

90% of the article is bogus and could very well have been edited out... it is after all an editorial...

ah well... least he eventually got to the point...

kudos ?

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Uttar: A CEO of any corporation is out to make money. They are not out to set ethics. Some companies will go to ANY lengths to make as much money as possible.

That includes things like coverups, insider trading, etc...

 

[Dio]

Not every company behaves that way. Keeping the examples well outside this industry, think Ben & Jerry's.

They're doing just fine, thankyouverymuch, while pursuing 'ethical' company policy.

 

[Geo]

OTOH, one could read the whole thing as Kyle's continuing crusade against FM. "IF this is true it simply leaves me numb after all the efforts that NVIDIA has expended to discredit Futuremark".

 

[martrox]

So you honestly believe he's going to be objective from here on out? He did a huge disservice to his readers for months by leading them astray and I'm sure many spent a lot of money on these cards after paying attention to his ramblings. I wouldn't be so quick to forgive him...

Ok, first, nowhere did I say what Kyle will do from here on out....that's up to Kyle. Joker, you need to read exactly what I said.

However, this does bring up the realization (I hope you remember this, Kyle) about just how important it is for these websites to remain objective in all things. It’s the least you owe your readers.

There is no reason to carry a grudge here.... I'm sure that many here will attest that no one here took Kyles' stance any worst that I did - I'm the one quoted - and condemned - as saying he is an ass! I meant that as in "stubborn as an jackass! While in retrospect I shouldn't have gotten personal, I'm pretty sure, in retrospect, Kyle wishes he hadn't accepted nVidia's whispers to him as the truth, too. It not only did his readers a disservice, but also did his site a great deal of damage - it's tough to regain trust that's been betrayed. BTW, if anyone buys anything, videocards included, doing so little reseach in reading only one source.....well, it's as much(or more, actually) their fault as the reviewers.

So, you can choose to hold a grudge here, and believe the worst of Kyle, or you can take him at his word - on this. So...... what's it going to be? Is Kyle the All Evil Denis Leary* of the Internet? Or, is he a person that just made a mistake, compounded by ego and stubborness?

BTW, try putting yourself in Kyles' shoes...... wouldn't you want the ability of others to forgive.......you?

*self proclamed asshole
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/4735/

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

BTW, try putting yourself in Kyles' shoes...... wouldn't you want the ability of others to forgive.......you?

That depends on whether I am holding others up to higher standards than I am holding myself up to. Do you think Kyle wants or deserves our forgiveness? Do you think he should come clean as we want Nvidia to do so? Do you think he should earn our forgiveness and trust, rather than being given it on the basis of finally admitting what the rest of us knew all along?

This editorial is a small step. Yes it's a forward step for Kyle, but it's still only a small one, and it still only the start of the journey before I'll let him off the hook for misleading readers (like I used to be) and for contributing greatly to the situation we find ourselves in now.

 

[Hellbinder]

This Article means exactly Squat. He'll just deny its exsistance or meaning by 4 Oclock This afternoon if it suits him. Look at how he even today twists, Lies, and rewrites the entire Quak event while at the same time Spinning every move Nvidia does into a posotive light.

If anyone thinks otherwise they are a Fool who does not learn from history. Let none of you forget that this Jackass even Banned Dave Bauman, and has all his little Faithful Zombie followers convinced that The leaders and moderators of B3D and even Nvnews (mikeC) are nothing but Mindless Fanboys.

Its really Sad that one person can be so totally *Blind* and Borderline Delisional.

 

[Reverend]

Hellbinder, you are entitled to your opinion but it appears the way you express them in our forums is not welcomed.

I was thinking of either editing your post or deleting it... but I'll let it stand... I think letting it stand is a better form of a reminder of just what we don't appreciate here.

 

[Reverend]

Rev,

normally I would agree in part with NV joining back to FM. However to me they seem like that Spolied Child we see at the stores. You know the one where he aks his mom for a candy bar, she says no, then the kid throws an un-holy temper tantrum, cries, throws stuff until sooner or later Mom finally gives in and gets the candy bar just to shut him up. I feel the same way here. Question is will NV do this again when they dont get their way in the future? What about ATI? Again having all major players on board is a good thing. However after what happened here, I will be a bit more cautious...

I am glad Kyle stood up for the consumer! He still needs to do more (like that B3D Police and banning dave still rubs me wrong).

The question isn't if NVIDIA would do this again. The question is how FM will react if NVIDIA does this agin.

In almost all of my emails to Markus Maki and Patric Ojala, I have always made it a point (and made sure they know it) that I don't speak diplomatically or formally. Just to let you know how I personally deal with FM.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Made the Inq http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10994

 

[Ozymandis]

Seems strange that Kyle would bite the hand that feeds him...

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to say that out loud

I think he owes his readers an apology, but I doubt it's forthcoming. This is a start, at least.

 

[epicstruggle]

im reposting this from the press release section as that part of the forum doesnt get alot of attention.

I dont think this has been said, but could NV be getting back into the beta program because NV40(or whatever the next gen. card is called) can perform very well in 3dmark03. If memory serves me right they got out of the beta program because nv30 pretty much sucked at this benchmark.

With rumors that NV40 could be around the corner, they might have run tests showing that NV40 has increased its score and so they can come back to the beta program.

[conspiracy mode on]
This could very well explain [h] editorial, and create a (premade) scenario where NV, apologizes and states that their new products will be cheat free.
[conspiracy mode off]

just my 2 cents.
later,
epic

 

[martrox]

Jesus!......not very Christian* here.......are we?

* as in turn the other cheek

BTW, I'm not Christian myself, but at least I can open myself up to the possibility of forgiveness...... Of course, at my age, I have to be able to give up a grudge....else they would weigh me down! Righteous indignation is the realm of the young........ and it's not very righteous!

 

[epicstruggle]

...
Let none of you forget that this ******* even Banned Dave Bauman, and has all his little Faithful Zombie followers convinced that The leaders and moderators of B3D and even Nvnews (mikeC) are nothing but Mindless Fanboys.
...

I dont want to go off topic, but did this really happen?
later,