Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2012]

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From Neogaf

Hey guys, Joel from Frozenbyte here. I think I'll just repost my comment to the DF article:

Worth of note is that the game actually has a dynamic resolution scaling feature on PS3 and Xbox 360 to keep a steady 30 frames per second. This shows in some levels (e.g. the 11th level Icewarden Keep has a scene in the beginning where this is somewhat visible, if I remember right). On Wii U the resolution is 720p solid.

Just to be clear, we will indeed be updating the "washed out" look. The observation about gamma level is correct, as there was a bug in the game that applied excessive gamma to the final output. It went unnoticed until release but we have now fixed it. So the game will soon look even better (similar in colour to the other versions). We're estimating a mid-December release for the update, give or take a few days, and it will also include support for Wii U Pro Controller, Voice Chat, some languages, and some minor things.

--

The above is what I've been hinting at in the mid-December update.

Other tidbits:

- The engine is our own indeed, we spent the year 2010 rewriting it from scratch almost (also the original Trine 1 engine is our own, although that's based on the Shadowgrounds engine(s) from 2001-2007)

- We did spend some time optimizing the game for Wii U, and it did make a nice impact (hard to say how this compares to other developers' work - but of course we were lucky in the sense that the game itself was more or less done, so we had more time to focus on making sure it was also running well)

- The multiplayer "party mode" we've hinted at in some early interviews etc is probably not happening. Mid-way development we ditched it and focused on the new Dwarven Caverns exclusive level instead (which is great - sadly it's a level that you can unlock only by playing the game to completion, so we haven't heard much feedback on it).

- Yes there is online co-op (3 players max). It should work well, not a lot of feedback on it yet but haven't heard much negative. It's possible that there's some kind of a bug that ends the game session upon disconnect, but it could also be that some people are misinterpreting it a bit (if you play as host, and disconnect, then the game will end for all players, but if a client disconnects, it should not end the game for the others - unless there's a bug, of course).

- Also local co-op for up to 3 players, using one GamePad and other players use Remote + Nunchuks (not quite ideal but works okayish). See below for Wii U Pro Controller.

- The mid-December update will also include Wii U Pro Controller support, Voice Chat, new languages (BR-PT, some others possibly), and some minor things.

Anyhow thanks a lot, we appreciate the feedback and thoughts. :)

Originally Posted by bakedpony:
I'm still salty that they haven't patched the game-breaking bug on the PS3 version if you play on an Asian console.
This applies to the North American version. If you have an Asian console, please buy the European version instead (it's fixed there - or rather, the buttons work, even if they are not reversed properly). If you are suffering from this on an Asian console with the NA version, please do get in touch and we can see what to do (we're a bit swamped at the moment though).

-Joel, Frozenbyte team, developers of Trine 2: Director's Cut

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45058944&postcount=57
 
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Originally Posted by DragonSworne:
On the subject of voice chat: Can the gamepad mic be used or is a headset required?
Previously I've said that it would require a headset but that may have been misguided... If other games (BLOPS II I heard someone say) can use the GamePad mic, then I'm sure we can too. We should know more soon.

Originally Posted by Kaijima:
Is the game really that CPU light, given it's based all around physics?
The proper description is probably "easier on the CPU than most other modern action games". The game is using all the CPU power available on all of the consoles, but it is generally more focused on the GPU - our AI routines for example are quite simple, and the general gameplay is not that demanding either (even if the calculations are all done in 3D I believe). The physics do add a bit though.

Originally Posted by AlStrong:
Hi Joel, nice to hear from you. Just a quick question: Are the physics actually different on WiiU? The article mentioned that it was different on PC/WiiU, but isn't it just the same PhysX middleware across all platforms?
We're using a bit higher settings on Wii U in general but I don't know if it really extends to physics much. There's at least a tiny bit more animation data going on and more dynamic particles, but I don't know if those would count. If I remember right we use a newer version of PhysX on Wii U than on the other consoles, so that might do a difference (still within the 2.8.x though). I would say that whatever difference there is in physics, it's rather minimal. If this thread is still active tomorrow, I can find out more from the programmers.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45059487&postcount=67
 
All these Wii U Face-offs seems to say the same thing: Slightly different, but more or less the same as what we've already got in PS360.
 
Which shots?

http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/360_012.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/PS3_012.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/WiiU_012.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/360_019.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/PS3_019.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/WiiU_019.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/360_022.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/PS3_022.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/WiiU_022.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/360_028.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/PS3_028.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/WiiU_028.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/360_030.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/PS3_030.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/WiiU_030.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/360_034.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/PS3_034.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/WiiU_034.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/360_045.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/PS3_045.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/WiiU_045.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1

http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/360_003.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/PS3_003.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/3/3/8/2/6/WiiU_003.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1

Not seeing it...

:?:
 
Yeah, probably darkening scale or other quirk in the renderer. It's also in shot 45 (grass). It really shouldn't be that dark in daylight, but oh well.
 
It does not have higher res shadows!

It is clear from the last set of shots, you can see the aliasing clearly and how the stepping pattern is the same.
 
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I've got a question for the regulars of this topic.

I've seen on Gaf and other forum, people complaining that when playing certain games in 1080p on Xbox360 or WiiU they're seeing tearing and the framerate drops. All the games I've seen cited are 720p games (or less) upscaled to 1080p not 1080p native games so I can't understand how the upscale process can do anything to the framerate or the number of torn frames.

If I understand well the Xbox360 rendering process, the game is rendered in the EDRAM with possibly MSAA at the resolution chosen by the developer. Then when it is done, the backbuffer is resolved in the main RAM, i.e it means that the backbuffer is copied in a texture in main RAM and the AA samples are combined during this process. Then during scanout, if the resolution chosen by the user in the settings is not the same that the rendering resolution, the backbuffer is upscaled at this moment.

The upscaled buffer is never written in the main RAM or EDRAM, it's an on-the-fly process when sending data to the display so how can it affect framerate, it doesn't make sense :???: Am I wrong in my vision of the rendering process or are some people mistaken and are seing things ?
 
Would be helpful to collect some game titles. My first instinct would be that the TV is a factor, in that it behaves differently when it gets a 720p signal or a 1080p signal.
 
@zeross

that's baffling for me too. Playing Dragon's Dogma at 720p bring horrible tearing, forcing it at higher resolution moves it.

(from tear in middle, become tear in top)
 
On WiiU the game was Sonic Racing
On Xbox 360 the games cited more frequently were Capcom games : Dead Rising, RE5, Dragon's Dogma... and some UE3 games : Mass Effect, GoW2

At first I thought it was a kind of collective hallucination :D because it doesn't make sense from a technical point of view, but since I've seen so many reports I wonder if maybe I'm missing something
 
It does not have higher res shadows!

It is clear from the last set of shots, you can see that the aliasing clearly and how the stepping pattern is the same.
I have to agree, besides the little different "noise" in the shadows on the 360, apparently all three console version has exactly the same shadow resolution.

GCGPl.jpg
 
On WiiU the game was Sonic Racing
On Xbox 360 the games cited more frequently were Capcom games : Dead Rising, RE5, Dragon's Dogma... and some UE3 games : Mass Effect, GoW2

At first I thought it was a kind of collective hallucination :D because it doesn't make sense from a technical point of view, but since I've seen so many reports I wonder if maybe I'm missing something

For Capcom game it's a well known thing, Capcom used a Software scaler. For ME don't see more tearing than in 720p or in 576i, ME1 have many tearing, so difficult to say without an analyse tool…TV is on 1:1 pixel mode so no overscan. GoW 2 don't known never play in 1080p.
 
What kind of settings does Digital Foundry usually set on their HDTV? I've been tinkering around with my set trying to find the right picture suited for gaming but I just can't seem to find the sweet spot. I have a 1366x768 32" Samsung LN32B60. If anyone could point me in the right direction that would much appreciated.
 
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What kind of settings does Digital Foundry usually set on their HDTV? I've been tinkering around with my set trying to find the right picture suited for gaming but I just can't seem to find the sweet spot. I have a 1366x768 32" Samsung LN32B60. If anyone could point me in the right direction that would much appreciated.

Maybe you should get a better TV?
 
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