Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2011]

[AlNom]

That's not true. He ignored changes to AA, AO, texture pop in, etc.

I wonder about getting some details on that, maybe he couldn't.

 

[kagemaru]

I wonder about getting some details on that, maybe he couldn't.

Possibly, but that shouldn't have stopped him from writing about it IMO. He wasn't always 100% sure before, but was still willing to give an educated guess which is all I'm asking for.

I thought it was a good read still, but like a couple other articles, I was disappointed he omitted some things I had hoped to read about.

 

[AlNom]

Ah well... I guess we know the AA situation sorta from the IQ analysis thread.

 

[i nerini del buio]

what's the deal with the input lag?

 

[RDK]

Not much can be said after Beta analysis and UC2's epic article.

what about GI? i think U3 is the first game using it realtime after C2 (console) fiasko or missing motion blur, aa, ao etc ... if GI would be in GeOW3 he will wrote 2 pages about it

 

[Persistantthug]

Battlefield 3 lead platform 'switched to consoles' mid-development

That's an interesting if not understandable admission.

I've been busy playing BF3 so I'm a little late on news over the last few days...so thanks for that.

 

[kagemaru]

Edit:

Ah well... I guess we know the AA situation sorta from the IQ analysis thread. :smile:

True thanks to you. :smile:

what about GI? i think U3 is the first game using it realtime after C2 (console) fiasko or missing motion blur, aa, ao etc ... if GI would be in GeOW3 he will wrote 2 pages about it

Link about real time GI in UC3 please?

I also can't believe some of you are still insisting he has a bias towards the 360. Don't any of you have anything better to do than make things up?

 

[Acert93]

what about GI? i think U3 is the first game using it realtime after C2 (console) fiasko or missing motion blur, aa, ao etc ... if GI would be in GeOW3 he will wrote 2 pages about it

Define GI.

Hint: Your statement makes no sense (marketing hyperbole?) as no game uses GI. Many games use "GI" approximations of various sorts, realtime and otherwise.

 

[L. Scofield]

what about GI? i think U3 is the first game using it realtime after C2 (console) fiasko or missing motion blur, aa, ao etc ... if GI would be in GeOW3 he will wrote 2 pages about it

Is it calculating the indirect lighting in realtime or just using regular light probes?

EDIT: More specific.

 

[MJP]

From playing the game, I'm pretty sure that Uncharted 3 is just using their usual approach of baking indirect lighting into lightmaps or vertices.

 

[Jedi2016]

From playing the game, I'm pretty sure that Uncharted 3 is just using their usual approach of baking indirect lighting into lightmaps or vertices.

They've got something going on for the characters, too. You can see the indirect lighting on Drake change throughout the videos. I doubt it's as complex as what BF3 is using, but it's definitely there.

 

[MJP]

Interesting, I'll have to take a careful look when I play it again.

On a somewhat-related note, the game does have lots of shadowed volumetric light shafts and they look pretty good. It doesn't look like they're doing accurate scattering calculations, but just having decent shadows is pretty impressive. I wonder if they do the ray marching on the SPU's.

 

[RDK]

i dont know what technic they are using for GI ... this should research DF and not talking "why drake cant jump from this to this ...."

Yemen is the best showcase for GI ... its looking gorgeous.

 

[Acert93]

i dont know what technic they are using for GI ... this should research DF and not talking "why drake cant jump from this to this ...."

If you don't know what technique how do you know they are using it? How can you also say other games aren't use the same, similar, or even better techniques? And how are we differentiating the general "GI hack category" and then setting UC3 aloft at the top with no pier if we cannot even do these basics?

 

[L. Scofield]

Here's the approach used in Sonic Unleashed. Requires pre-calculated information. Maybe U3 is using something like this:

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/3dcg/20090410_110682.html

 

[Alucardx23]

What happened to the regular Saturday updates from Digital Foundry?

Edit: Never mind found the new Uncharted 3 article.........I don’t like the new design its making it harder to find the new articles. :/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-uncharted-3

 

[RDK]

Here's the approach used in Sonic Unleashed. Requires pre-calculated information. Maybe U3 is using something like this:

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/3dcg/20090410_110682.html

looking ok ... in U3 GI is working on particles (dust) too

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If you don't know what technique how do you know they are using it?

I think RDK just means indirect illumination rather than any clever GI solver. The end results are very good which is what impresses him/her, hence an interest to know how it's done. We can pretty safely say it's precalculated lightmaps. The scenery isn't dynamic so that'll work very well for U3. There's no need for more at this level when they are trying to do everything else with their graphics as well as illumination.

 

[Acert93]

I think RDK just means indirect illumination rather than any clever GI solver. The end results are very good which is what impresses him/her, hence an interest to know how it's done. We can pretty safely say it's precalculated lightmaps. The scenery isn't dynamic so that'll work very well for U3. There's no need for more at this level when they are trying to do everything else with their graphics as well as illumination.

No, he actually said only Crysis 2 and UC3 are using GI. That is just marketing. Beyond the basic graphics are hacks, there are "proper" GI solution in offline rendering. I know we can agree on that much. The question is how console games are trying to approximate these results of traditional GI techniques.

I don't think he has to know the "name" of the technique, but being able to says, "UC3 is the only game that does an approximation of dynamic radiosity" or whatever is specific enough to at least examine.

As it stands if we are looking at precomputed techniques, those were around on the ol' Xbox 1. We have seen all sorts of bakes solutions on static stuff even before that. Early on this generation we saw PRT variants and SH baked into dynamic objects like characters and the progress of AO from baked, moving to dynamic objects that may not change position (e.g. a car) on up to various dynamic solutions that are now even realtime to a degree (SSAO). Indirect lighting has been going on for a long time (I did a news blurb a couple years back on Geometrics before it even made it into a title) and the first full next gen Splinter Cell had a full demoed "GI solution" with a handful of lights back in 2006/2007.

I am not saying that Crysis 2 and UC3 aren't providing (a) new techniques that (b) do more, look better and (c) come in a package of technologies to address GI issues in realtime games.

But I think it is fair to ask, "What is UC3 doing better, on a technical basis, than other games that makes you say that?"

That is especially fair because some of the BEST looking games this gen don't always use all the wizz-bang effects (using more proven techniques at higher qualities with great art selection often goes a lot further) and separating the art from the tech isn't always so obvious. There have been quite a few "B" games that had some nice technology in their product. And there are some not so obvious titles/genres (e.g. sports) that often get overlooked.

Btw, I have not played ANY of the Uncharted games (the ability to have gunplay with Mirror's Edge style pakor and some hand to hand combat and cover sound heavenly though... this, MNR, Motorstorm, and Infamous are as a non-PS3 owner the games that really stand out as unique/compelling in the market) and have limited exposure to the gameplay/visuals so I have not/am not knocking it. But the hyperbole, marketing, and trash talk around here are ridiculous.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No, he actually said only Crysis 2 and UC3 are using GI. That is just marketing.

No, he says "I think" :

i think U3 is the first game using it realtime after C2 (console)

Which is what someone could say with limited exposure to a variety of games and who is impressed by the look of U3 because it looks like realtime GI. Plus RDK is a non-native English speaker, asking for an explanation of what U3's lighting tech is.

My response to RDK is that U3 isn't the only game alongside C2 using realtime GI. C2 used its own custom realtime GI solver on consoles in limited, paired back form. LBP2 is noteworthy for a novel implementation of a GI approximation through its volumetric lighting in a limited depth scene. There's Geomerics Enlighten engine as used in BF3 that does realtime GI solving, but not on characters AFAIK. Other games approximate GI using older techniques such as light probes and spherical harmonics to greater or lesser result. U3 is one such game, using existing technologies very well but not doing anything special. Ergo your 'think' that U3 is using realtime GI like C2 would be incorrect.

Caveat : This is speculation and subject to change, but ND are pretty open about their tech so I'm sure we'll hear about any amazing lighting engine if there is one. Probability is low though.