Track and Field world championships in Berlin

Amelie-Mauresmo-in.jpg

amelie-mauresmo.jpg

heres another famouis sportswoman whos had doubts about her sex, btw shes lesbian I could believe shes like a 80%female/20%male hybrid
 
Dr Evil said:
If you don't see it, then it's your problem... No real woman will ever be able to compete with her "gifts" or with her facial hair. Yeah tough luck for her as she probably is some sort of mix between genders, if not a full blown man, and of course she is not responsible for the way she was born, but the fair competition for the other women is more important that the faith of one transsexual. In two years she would beat the others by 5 seconds.
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Oh I see just fine, thing is nothing's been proven, yet.
What if all the tests eventually certifies her 100% female?
You still gonna bitch about it, then? :rolleyes:
 
thehulk said:
Oh I see just fine, thing is nothing's been proven, yet.
What if all the tests eventually certifies her 100% female?
You still gonna bitch about it, then? :rolleyes:
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Well the chances of her being 100 % are slim to none. If that however turns out be so, then I just have to accept it. having seen what I have seen though, I'm quite certain that she is not 100 % female, perhaps she could be enough woman to let her race, but I doubt that too.

Will you pull back your eye rolling, and admit that you are the one bitching if they strip the gold medal away? I think there is plenty of proof to throw these "accusations" I'm doing. What do you think they are going to find out? Does she appear a woman to you? Imo women don't have such male attributes without extreme use of hormones/steroids or if their body is close to a male in the begin with. Maybe I just don't share your innocent until proven quilty attitude to the same degree, when the odds are highly in favour of foul play. I wouldn't strip the medal from her before the testing though, but proper tests are the only right thing to do in her case.
 
I don't give a rats ass about this chick, or her gold medals.
If she's found guilty, fine. I couldn't care less.

What puts me off is the attitude and insults.
I guess its my fault for expecting better of B3D'ers than the rest of the interwebs. :yep2:
 
thehulk said:
I guess its my fault for expecting better of B3D'ers than the rest of the interwebs. :yep2:
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Well I think the problem is at your end, but whatever enough of this...

Any guesses whether Bolt will break the WR at 200m today? It's a pity that Tyson Gay isn't there to challenge him, so Bolt might take it easy. I hope he runs as fast as he can. So far Bolt has won three gold medals in olympic games (100m, 200m and relay) and one world championship and every time he has won, he has also made a new world record.
 
I doubt Gay will ever race against Bolt again.

He knows he's never going to win which is the reason he's bottled it in the 200m. It's amazing the number of times Gay has managed to aviod racing against Bolt.

As for Semenya, maybe she's a hermaphrodite that is more man than woman, but has choosen to live as a woman and has had the appropriate surgery.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8212078.stm

It all seems a little convienient, she first came on the radar 3 weeks before the chapionships, "strangly" not leaving enough time to complete the tests beforehand.
 
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As I understand it, there are literally dozens of different genetic abnormalities which can lead to a blend of male/female.

Thinking that there is some kind of conspiracy here seems ridiculous to me. The girl may have one of these conditions but she's only 18, for heaven's sake, so why assume there must have been time for these tests to take place before now, especially since this controversy has only just begun.

It would seem sensible to give her the benefit of the doubt until the tests (which I understand may take a few months) are completed.
 
Mariner said:
As I understand it, there are literally dozens of different genetic abnormalities which can lead to a blend of male/female.

Thinking that there is some kind of conspiracy here seems ridiculous to me. The girl may have one of these conditions but she's only 18, for heaven's sake, so why assume there must have been time for these tests to take place before now, especially since this controversy has only just begun.

It would seem sensible to give her the benefit of the doubt until the tests (which I understand may take a few months) are completed.
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It's kind of hard to give her the benefit of the doubt, when doubts are the reason for the tests :smile:

I don't think there is any conspiracy, it's probably one of those genetic abnormalities (or two...) Imo it's pretty evident that this is the case. 18 year old men or women don't win at track & field world championships unless in a situation like this. It's a bit sad, but blends just can't compete in the woman category.
 
Or maybe she's entirely female and is just a bit of a "freak" when it comes to her physique possibly caused by some non-sexual mutation? As I say, we have no way of knowing one way or the other so it doesn't seem right to assume 'guilt' without any proof at all.

Using your logic you could say that we must assume Bolt is on steroids because he's broken the two records by such a distance even though there is no evidence of such.
 
Mariner said:
Using your logic you could say that we must assume Bolt is on steroids because he's broken the two records by such a distance even though there is no evidence of such.
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Nothing in Bolt's physique or in the amount of muscle mass he has suggest that he has to be on steroids, this is not the case for Semenya.

Besides this thread or me aren't any sort of authority to condemn people to hell or any other place :smile: so I'm not passing judgement or anything just saying how I see things. I wouldn't throw these things at her face, but feel that it's ok to discuss this stuff. I'm fairly certain that whatever her condition is, it is not fair to the other woman competitors. I think the probabilities that there is something "wrong" with her are so high that it's justified to bring in some noise.
 
Dr Evil said:
I'm fairly certain that whatever her condition is, it is not fair to the other woman competitors. I think the probabilities that there is something "wrong" with her are so high that it's justified to bring in some noise.
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You're so full of it.

Semenya's mother, Dorcus, has leapt to the defence of her child, telling the Star newspaper: "I am not even worried about that (claims she is a male) because I know who and what my child is.

"Mokgadi (Caster Semenya) is a girl and no one can change that.

"If you go (to) my home village and ask any of my neighbours, they would tell you that Mokgadi is a girl.

"They know because they helped raise her. People can say whatever they like but the truth will remain, which is that my child is a girl."
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Former Olympic heptathlon gold medallist Denise Lewis described the treatment of Semenya as "absolutely dreadful".

"It's awful she had to compete with this hanging over her head," said Lewis. "It should have been sorted out much, much sooner than this."

Four-time Olympic gold medallist Michael Johnson believes that in the current climate the IAAF had to act on the issue but was critical of the manner in which this was done.

"We have to take it at face value that she's entered in the right race and the gender is what the South Africans claim it is," said the American.

"The consensus is that it is highly unfair and embarrassing to the athlete but at the same time we've had so many athletes who have doped over the last decade in this sport, so we know people will cheat for success.

"I think what the IAAF is doing is the right thing in terms of dealing with the situation, but the way they're dealing with it is all wrong."

Former world 1500m champion Steve Cram was similarly damning of the decision and suggested the IAAF may have been attempting to force Semenya's withdrawal.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/8212078.stm

There's absolutely nothing to prove that she's a man. As thehulk said, you have to give her the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. You'd think her parents know what gender she is too, they seem very sure she's female through and through.

I wonder if she'll be able to sue the IAAF for 'mental anguish' or whatever once this gets resolved and if she's proved 100% female.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
You're so full of it.
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You mean full of strawberries?

Unknown Soldier said:
There's absolutely nothing to prove that she's a man. As thehulk said, you have to give her the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. You'd think her parents know what gender she is too, they seem very sure she's female through and through.
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There is plenty of evidence to raise heavy suspicions. Do you think it's a proper thing to do to test her? Or should we just leave her to dominate the sport for 20 years even though she looks like a man. I think it's probable that she doesn't have male sex organs, but other than that I wouldn't hold what a family member says as a proof of anything and how could they even say anything else, if she was born with some genetic condition, and looked like a girl at birth, then a girl it is to them and now that she is likely to bring heavy income to the family, I doubt that the family is going oppose that in any way.

I'm not going to change my tone on the matter until she is proven innocent, sorry for the upset that causes to everyone. Honestly my goal is not to upset you, I'm just very concerned about the sport and how easy it's to dominate with male attributes.
 
I wonder if Bolt is every going to run the 400m, I'm sure he would obliterate that record too.

Just watched the 200m on the BBC website and you really do hae to wonder what the man is really capable of. I don't think he's smashed a record yet without slowing down near the end.

Watch this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8213221.stm

Highlight of the championships for sure.
 
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Dr Evil said:
Nothing in Bolt's physique or in the amount of muscle mass he has suggest that he has to be on steroids, this is not the case for Semenya.
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No sprinter of Bolt's height has ever run anywhere near as fast (no sprinter of any height, for that matter :smile:).

Here's a photo of former British World Champion, Fatima Whitbread:

_39288173_fatima1987_300x300.jpg


Your argument would be that surely someone with that physique can't be a woman? Except she is and has had a child to prove it (if proof were needed). Never failed a drugs test either.

Seriously, your argument about Semenya is not logical in any respect.
 
Mariner said:
No sprinter of Bolt's height has ever run anywhere near as fast
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So what?
Mariner said:
Here's a photo of former British World Champion, Fatima Whitbread:

_39288173_fatima1987_300x300.jpg


Your argument would be that surely someone with that physique can't be a woman? Except she is and has had a child to prove it (if proof were needed). Never failed a drugs test either.
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Probably has used serious amounts of human growth hormone, which is hard to detect. Please don't tell me what my argument is in other matters or persons. Passing drug tests are not impossible by any degree. Substances have certain time period before they vanish from the body. I know little bit about what sort of physiques natural women can achieve and that Fatima is not a natural athlete. 100 % guaranteed. Believe what you want. Of course having passed all the tests, there is nothing to be done about it, but if you think that stops me from mentioning things in a forum discussion, then you are mistaken.
 
So basically, you're certain Semenya is 'guilty', despite there being no proof whatsoever in favour of your argument except for the way she looks.

If, however, other people point out that many other women athletes also have non-standard physiques, they your reply is that they must be on drugs despite the complete lack of evidence?

So you aren't basing any of your views on any evidence.

You are, of course, free to have your views but there is little point in continuing with this discussion as it seems you have already made your mind up, regardless of the evidence or lack thereof.

It will be interesting to see what results the 'gender tests' provide in a month or two. Whatever the situation, I feel sorry for the girl. It can't be easy for one so young to have been judged by the media in such a manner.
 
Simon F said:
FWIW, given the time scales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_Whitbread VS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone) HGH would seem pretty unlikely.
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What are you talking about.

From Wiki

"In its role as an anabolic agent, HGH has been used by competitors in sports since the 1970s, and it has been banned by the IOC and NCAA. Traditional urine analysis could not detect doping with HGH, so the ban was unenforceable until the early 2000s"


Fatima was at his prime during the 80s. I've been following bodybuilding and other sports for a long time and have friends that are on the juice. I like to think I have some level of understanding of these matters.
 
Mariner said:
So basically, you're certain Semenya is 'guilty', despite there being no proof whatsoever in favour of your argument except for the way she looks.

If, however, other people point out that many other women athletes also have non-standard physiques, they your reply is that they must be on drugs despite the complete lack of evidence?

So you aren't basing any of your views on any evidence.

You are, of course, free to have your views but there is little point in continuing with this discussion as it seems you have already made your mind up, regardless of the evidence or lack thereof.

It will be interesting to see what results the 'gender tests' provide in a month or two. Whatever the situation, I feel sorry for the girl. It can't be easy for one so young to have been judged by the media in such a manner.
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I'm almost certain that they will find something that will prevent her from competing as a woman. BTW I also feel sorry for her, but at the moment I feel more sorry for her competitors, if she is cleared then it's okay by me.
 
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