3D Gaming*

[Arwin]

Any chance for decent glasses free 3DTV by 2014 ?

Personally I think absolutely yes. But I'm also thinking that the price difference between glassless and glasses 3D is going to be and stay very large. Without glasses I think there's just no way to get around having to provide twice the pixels of a regular screen that can do 3D with glasses.

And that's at least twice, because so far you basically seem to need double the amount of pixels for each additional viewer or angle.

 

[MfA]

It practically doesn't matter how many pixels you use with a lenticular or barrier screens in front of the display, you will get sweet spots regardless (unless you can do 100s of times the normal horizontal resolution). Sweet spots are not really acceptable for a TV.

 

[patsu]

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/29850/3D_Gaming_Wont_Make_Your_Eyes_Stick_That_Way_Says_Top_Doc.php

"It's not likely to cause any permanent harm to vision," said Dr. Mark Borchert, a respected L.A.-based ophthalmologist with the American Academy of Ophthalmology, talking to Gamasutra. He was named as one of the best doctors in Southern California by the L.A. Times in 2009.

"There are people who get uncomfortable with it, and get eye strain or headaches, or on much rarer occasions, a sense of imbalance or nausea, but there's no evidence it can cause permanent harm to your vision or use of both eyes together or anything like that."

...

 

[patsu]

Under $1K 50" 3DTV from Samsung:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/3D/Plasma/Samsung/Samsung_Launches_a_50_3D_Plasma_for_Under_$1,000/5232

The PN50C490 comes in at $989, making it the cheapest new 3D set.

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Samsung's new 50 inch plasma has an MSRP of $1,099 but is available right now on Amazon for just $989.

 

[upnorthsox]

If you're only into 3D gaming for that set it's a pretty good deal but 720p won't cut it for blu-ray's.

On the plus plus side, it should force Panasonic into some cuts.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Under $1K 50" 3DTV from Samsung:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/3D/Plasma/Samsung/Samsung_Launches_a_50_3D_Plasma_for_Under_$1,000/5232



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Heh, and ~200 USD for each 3d glasses.

I still think there's just as much of a chance that the 3D push will fail as there is that it'll succeed. And even if it does succeed, I wouldn't be surprised if adoption rate was twice as slow as BRD if not much lower than even that.

If there was glasses free 3DTV's (without partitioned viewing zones) available with the prospect of a 28-32 inch set costing around 400 USD in ~4 years I'd be a little less skeptical. But as is even if TV sets come out around 400 USD, decent 3D glasses will still probably add another 50-100% to that.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

You should be able to get new Samsung 3D glasses for about US$150 each today.

The latest 3DTV movement is only about 6 months old.

Content is still being developed. Far too early to have any real forecast (need more sales data). All we know is the CE vendors are seeding the market now. It's like selling HDTVs for them anyway. We also get 3D PC today, 3D cameras and home consoles in 2010, and portable ones in 2011.

I don't think 3DTV needs to drop to US$400 to gain traction. As long as mid-level HDTV continues to sell, the CE vendors will take their time to make $$$ and groom the market. In the mean time, they will play with their market development funds to support more 3D content. US$400 3D Monitors would help to drive adoption though.

We should know whether 3D business is viable before 3DTV hit dirt cheap level. The CE vendors would switch to other selling points if they can't make headway. The price of the 3D glasses will drop too if momentum builds up.

 

[manux]

Heh, and ~200 USD for each 3d glasses.

I still think there's just as much of a chance that the 3D push will fail as there is that it'll succeed. And even if it does succeed, I wouldn't be surprised if adoption rate was twice as slow as BRD if not much lower than even that.

If there was glasses free 3DTV's (without partitioned viewing zones) available with the prospect of a 28-32 inch set costing around 400 USD in ~4 years I'd be a little less skeptical. But as is even if TV sets come out around 400 USD, decent 3D glasses will still probably add another 50-100% to that.

Regards,
SB

Are you still going to say that when at least ps4 will be pushing 3d gaming like crazy(and all the already forthcoming push for 3d movies and photographs coming next year)? There also is the added bonus of single screen multiplayer where each player has their own image for full screen. Should enhance co-op/driving games/etc quite nicely... I believe also MS is going to be pushing 3d gaming at that time and who knows about nintendo although they already have the 3d version of ds coming out.

I doubt the glasses will be too expensive once the early adaptor phase is sorted out and manufacturing gets to mainstream. There also will be the possibility to buy somewhat more expensive and better fitting universal glasses in future where one can reuse the glasses when buying new tv.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I cant see how the 3D push will fail to be honest. In the not too distant future every TV will have the feature built in. When this happens you no longer have the situation where you need to buy a $2000 TV and multiple sets of $200 glasses, people will already have the TVs and thus all they will require to get in on the 3D action is a set of $60 glasses (assuming they come down in price, which they will). For a $60 investment i cant see many people totaly ignoring 3D, even if they only have one set for the odd movie or something and not for the whole family. Certainly with gamers, if there TV is already 3D ready and the next gen consoles are 3D capable i cant see many not making that $60 investment.

 

[JB9861]

It would be fine for Blu-ray at 50 inches.

 

[patsu]

I cant see how the 3D push will fail to be honest. In the not too distant future every TV will have the feature built in. When this happens you no longer have the situation where you need to buy a $2000 TV and multiple sets of $200 glasses, people will already have the TVs and thus all they will require to get in on the 3D action is a set of $60 glasses (assuming they come down in price, which they will). For a $60 investment i cant see many people totaly ignoring 3D, even if they only have one set for the odd movie or something and not for the whole family. Certainly with gamers, if there TV is already 3D ready and the next gen consoles are 3D capable i cant see many not making that $60 investment.

It can still fail if the vendors make the wrong move, or when there is not enough compelling 3D content on the market.

Best if they keep stacking additional benefits and innovative services on top, like the recent full-screen co-op gaming.

EDIT: "Infiltration" into existing popular services like YouTube, FaceBook is important also.

 

[patsu]

Under $1K 50" 3DTV from Samsung:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/3D/Plasma/Samsung/Samsung_Launches_a_50_3D_Plasma_for_Under_$1,000/5232



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More newly announced Samsung 3D devices:

65" LED 3DTV:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...tros_a_65_Inch_LED_Backlit_3D_Television/5240

It's got a ridiculous 8,000,000:1 contrast ratio, and Real 240Hz tech built right in. It does precision backlight dimming, and sports Samsung's Ultra Clear panel.

...plus Internet widgets. $6K.

Portable 3D Blu-ray player:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...First_3D_Capable_Portable_Blu-ray_Player/5239

While portable DVD players once came in all shapes and sizes, portable Blu-ray players just haven't taken off in the same way. There are only a few models out, and none of them really satisfy. Samsung's BD-C8000 might just change that.

You need a separate 3DTV to view 3D content. 3DS will have its lunch.

 

[JB9861]

You need a separate 3DTV to view 3D content. 3DS will have its lunch.

Its lunch along with many others unfortunately....unless you're at Nintendo HQ where there will be confetti and champagne.

 

[grandmaster]

Nothing to stop a parallax barrier screen being added to a 3D capable portable Blu-ray player. I'm guessing that there isn't the software out there to warrant that additional expense.

I'd imagine the reason that these portables haven't gain traction is through a combination of not getting a proper HD experience on a tiny screen combined with the rise of video playback on devices like iPhone/iPad and even netbooks.

By the way, the one thing about 3DS that isn't so good is that the screen is relatively tiny and really not so good for movie watching.

 

[patsu]

That's true !

PSP is probably the smallest size I'm willing to go. Youtube on iPhone is ok. iPad is the best (vibrant colors, long battery life, big but handy enough).

 

[Arwin]

That's true !

PSP is probably the smallest size I'm willing to go. Youtube on iPhone is ok. iPad is the best (vibrant colors, long battery life, big but handy enough).

I think I agree ... the PSP 1-3k is a great size. Wouldn't mind something with 3D capabilities of a similar size. Perhaps Nintendo can do an XL version a little earlier in the cycle this time.

Definitely also still very interested in the iPad.

 

[TheWretched]

Dies sei laut Nicolas Schulz keine Option für Crytek gewesen. So soll Crysis 2 auf modernen Konsolen mit rund 30 Bildern/s laufen, Spielraum fürs Dual-Picture-Rendering gibt es hierbei also nicht. Cryteks 3D-Stereoansatz baut zwar auf der Frustum-Shift-Methode auf, rendert eine 3D-Szene jedoch nicht zweimal, sondern erzeugt nach einem Rendervorgang durch die Projektion von bereits berechneten Pixeln zwei synthetische Bilder für das linke und rechte Auge aus Backbuffer-Daten und Tiefeninformationen. Schließlich wird der Backbuffer noch mit einem bilinearen Filter abgetastet. Der Backbuffer ist ein Teil des Grafikspeichers, in dem Bilder berechnet werden, bevor sie in den Frontbuffer kopiert und schließlich auf dem Bildschirm ausgegeben werden

According to Nicolas Schulz, this was not an option for Crytek (having 2 full buffers for 3D). Crysis 2 has to run at 30 fps on consoles, where there's no headroom for dual picture rendering. Cryteks 3D technique uses a Frustum Shift Method, where it render a 3D scene once, and then it projects two synthetic pictures for the left and right eye from the back and depthbuffer. After that, they apply a billinear filter to the backbuffer. After that, the buffer is copied to the frontbuffer for display...

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...-Stereo-ohne-Performance-Verlust-1060948.html

 

[grandmaster]

I'm still very curious about the output format of Crysis 2 over HDMI bearing in mind that it has to support 360 too which is not HDMI 1.4 compliant.

Can it really be that alternate frames are beamed to each eye? I'm not sure this has ever been supported in any 3D spec. Or maybe a side-by-side 1080p format is used?

EDIT: Reading that German piece, it seems to suggest that the HDMI 1.4 format is used for PS3, while the 360 does indeed use side-by-side or interlace. But 720p, 1080p or both, that is the question.

 

[TheWretched]

I'm still very curious about the output format of Crysis 2 over HDMI bearing in mind that it has to support 360 too which is not HDMI 1.4 compliant.

Can it really be that alternate frames are beamed to each eye? I'm not sure this has ever been supported in any 3D spec. Or maybe a side-by-side 1080p format is used?

EDIT: Reading that German piece, it seems to suggest that the HDMI 1.4 format is used for PS3, while the 360 does indeed use side-by-side or interlace. But 720p, 1080p or both, that is the question.

Bei der PS3 funktioniert die Ausgabe der für beide Augen berechneten Bilder über HDMI 1.4, bei der XBox 360 über Frame-kompatible Formate (side by side, line interlaced). Dies führe aber derzeit noch dazu, dass das nicht dafür angepasste XBox-Dashboard fehlerhaft dargestellt wird. Hier sei es an Microsoft, eine Lösung zu bieten.

PS3 uses HDMI 1.4, whereas the 360 uses a Frame compatible format (side by side, line interlaced), which introduces problems with the Dashboard, as it isn't rendered in 3D, but MS tries to find a solution.

 

[patsu]

http://www.marketingcharts.com/television/middle-east-leads-3dtv-ownership-interest-13861/

“How We Watch” indicates that globally, 12% of online consumers own or have definite interest in purchasing a 3DTV. Interest and intent is highest amongst consumers ages 25-29.

MEAP has an ownership/definite interest index score of 200, meaning residents in MEAP nations are twice as likely as the global average to own or plan to buy a 3DTV. Latin America follows with an index score of 175.

Asia-Pacific ranks third with an index score of 100, meaning Asia-Pacific residents are as likely as the global average to own or plan to buy an HDTV. North America and Europe lag with index scores of 75, meaning residents there are 25% less likely to own or plan to buy an HDTV than the global average.

... and more in the link above.