ShadowRunner
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Is 3840x1080 side by side mode mandatory for a 1.4 tv to support?
3D Gaming*
- Thread starter Arwin
- Start date
Is 3840x1080 side by side mode mandatory for a 1.4 tv to support?
no but "mandatory" isn't really determinant
actually 1080p isn't mandatory but suported by majority of TV
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Amazingly enough, I managed to take my family out over the weekend despite my hectic work _and_ gaming schedule (I slept in the car while my wife drove ;-)).
So I ended up in the Sony Style store in Stanford Mall, Palo Alto. They had this Bravia 3D TV on display.
I hope that's not the final product. You can tell very clearly there is flicker in the "Meat ball" movie they show. Most of the people I observed were not impressed.
The guy at the store told me they are waiting for an update from Japan. Sony would do better by showing their final gears instead of interim, subpar implementation.
So I ended up in the Sony Style store in Stanford Mall, Palo Alto. They had this Bravia 3D TV on display.
I hope that's not the final product. You can tell very clearly there is flicker in the "Meat ball" movie they show. Most of the people I observed were not impressed.
The guy at the store told me they are waiting for an update from Japan. Sony would do better by showing their final gears instead of interim, subpar implementation.
I'm beginning to suspect that there is a kernel of truth in Panasonic's presentation about the unsuitability of LCDs for stereoscopic compared to plasma. AFAIK LCDs are still updated in the normal scanline pattern, it's not like the next frame suddenly appears on the screen.
So assuming that a 240 Hz screen can update a frame in 1/240th of a second that only leaves a stable image on the screen half of the time (if you do updates in the form of L/L/R/R/L/L/etc, so basically you are only going to be doing 120 Hz). I see claims that 4 ms gray to gray response is common nowadays, so lets assume that ... then between the scanline updating and the settling time we have 1/4 of the time left to open the shutters. Throw in the fact that your shutters will half that time again for each eye you need your backlight to be 8 times brighter (when it's on, it only has to be on when the shutters are open obviously) for stereoscopic imaging if you want to actually do it without ghosting (and shutters with a response time of well below a ms).
I think all that's doable for 240 Hz displays, I'm not so certain the current generation of hardware is up to the task though (not so sure the backlights can flash bright enough and switch on/off fast enough and not so sure the shutter glasses can switch fast enough). So maybe they are just opening the shutters for a little longer to ease the margins ... at the cost of more ghosting.
So assuming that a 240 Hz screen can update a frame in 1/240th of a second that only leaves a stable image on the screen half of the time (if you do updates in the form of L/L/R/R/L/L/etc, so basically you are only going to be doing 120 Hz). I see claims that 4 ms gray to gray response is common nowadays, so lets assume that ... then between the scanline updating and the settling time we have 1/4 of the time left to open the shutters. Throw in the fact that your shutters will half that time again for each eye you need your backlight to be 8 times brighter (when it's on, it only has to be on when the shutters are open obviously) for stereoscopic imaging if you want to actually do it without ghosting (and shutters with a response time of well below a ms).
I think all that's doable for 240 Hz displays, I'm not so certain the current generation of hardware is up to the task though (not so sure the backlights can flash bright enough and switch on/off fast enough and not so sure the shutter glasses can switch fast enough). So maybe they are just opening the shutters for a little longer to ease the margins ... at the cost of more ghosting.
I just came back from my first 3D movie experience since Jaws 3D way back whenever that was... It was at a IMAX theater with seats that had "bass response speakers" embedded in them for "better immersion" -- Other than the sound, I have to say I was underwhelmed at seeing Avatar in 3D.
First of all, I kept fiddling with the glasses to keep them on my face, over my regular glasses. Secondly... I kept having to take them off during the dark scenes to really see if that scene was supposed to be that dark, or if it were the lenses providing a significant filter to what I was seeing. It was definitely the lenses. Almost like watching something with significant black-crush.
Anyway, I can't imagine playing a game... where my hands are on a controller, and having to adjust the glasses frequently... I can see it now:
* Adjust glasses for comfort.
* Start game
* 1 minute later, pause game, readjust glasses
* unpause, continue playing
* pause game, readjust glasses because they slipped
* unpause game, keep playing.
* pause game, put down controller, take off glasses, run to kitchen to grab some Ibuprofen to counteract developing headache
* sit down, put on glasses, unpause game...
You get it...
The 3D experience really spoiled it for my entire party (of 4) -- we all said almost simultaneously, can't wait until this movie comes out on DVD/BDR so we can see it in regular 2D...
First of all, I kept fiddling with the glasses to keep them on my face, over my regular glasses. Secondly... I kept having to take them off during the dark scenes to really see if that scene was supposed to be that dark, or if it were the lenses providing a significant filter to what I was seeing. It was definitely the lenses. Almost like watching something with significant black-crush.
Anyway, I can't imagine playing a game... where my hands are on a controller, and having to adjust the glasses frequently... I can see it now:
* Adjust glasses for comfort.
* Start game
* 1 minute later, pause game, readjust glasses
* unpause, continue playing
* pause game, readjust glasses because they slipped
* unpause game, keep playing.
* pause game, put down controller, take off glasses, run to kitchen to grab some Ibuprofen to counteract developing headache
* sit down, put on glasses, unpause game...
You get it...
The 3D experience really spoiled it for my entire party (of 4) -- we all said almost simultaneously, can't wait until this movie comes out on DVD/BDR so we can see it in regular 2D...
with scanning LED backlight (put off the edge LED backlight line after line simultaneously with the scaning of the first L image and put ON line after line when scaning the second L image, same with R) you can hide 4ms of LCD latency on the full screen surface
you have - 50% of brightness but not really lost because backlight is off, you can compensate with intensity
and shutterglass with LCD TV are particular, you don't have 50% brightness lose on the shutterglass front filter like with other TV technology (like plasma...) because LCD image is already polarised
and plasma have problem with phosphore persistence (green and red phosphore)
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I don't think that would really work with edge lit, it's not like they are laser beams or anything, light will spread along a very large angle ... it would indeed be an option for the locally dimmed LED backlights, but those are still OMG expensive.
I didn't assume polarization losses for the brightness loss from shutter glasses, merely that each eye only gets half the frames.
I didn't assume polarization losses for the brightness loss from shutter glasses, merely that each eye only gets half the frames.
It will happen when you're overly conscious with the glasses. It happened to me for the first 30 seconds (glasses too heavy). Then I forgot about it totally. Some people will definitely take time to get used to it.
The second time I went, my friend complained that the picture was too dim (This is Dolby 3D). But eventually, he settled in too.
My wife and 2 other friends went to watch Avatar IMAX last Saturday. They were very impressed with the movie and presentation.
EDIT: I think the 3D glasses will evolve quickly to take cheaper and more elegant form, like these:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/gunnar-optiks-swank-and-stylish-3d-specs-get-the-hands-on-treat/
Believe in Mainland China manufacturing powess for this sort of things.
Samsung's 3D TVs:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...msung’s_C7000_Series_TVs_Coming_in_March/4248
Still a little expensive ! The low-end Vizio 3D TV will cost $2000.
Panasonic announces a 3D monitor for 3D movie production use. It uses the polarized glasses technology:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s..._Unveils_25.5_Inch_3D_Production_Monitor/4250
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...msung’s_C7000_Series_TVs_Coming_in_March/4248
Still a little expensive ! The low-end Vizio 3D TV will cost $2000.
Panasonic announces a 3D monitor for 3D movie production use. It uses the polarized glasses technology:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s..._Unveils_25.5_Inch_3D_Production_Monitor/4250
http://kotaku.com/5474447/metal-gear-arcade-is-so-not-dead-3d-googles-areinteresting
Metal Gear Arcade was announced at last year's E3 in Los Angeles. Konami calls it a "tactical online action" game, and MGS Arcade is a multiplayer networked title with 3D googles...that look like this:
Arcade makes a lot of sense, although it'll be a bit rubbish for spectators!
Speakers and sponsors step up for 3D Gaming Summit
I wonder if this means that Resistance 3 will feature a 3D display option.
I think DLP is really the most well-suited (mature) technology for frame-sequential 3D. It's basically instantaneous. Plasma should also work quite well if they can minimize the phosphor delay. LCD is the worst option, only TN is remotely fast enough and that has its own well-known problems. OLED would likely work well, if they can ever get larger displays to a reasonable price.
Those must have been really bad glasses. I've played Mass Effect with NV's glasses for 4 hours straight without readjusting them, over my prescription glasses. No headaches either, but I admit that may be a more subjective effect.
Hold your horses...
http://www.thisisbrandx.com/2010/02...tertainment-a-very-different-perspective.html
Mod: Please include link details so we know why we (don't) want to follow a link. In this case, "This report talks about a potential health risk with prolonged 3D gaming and television."
http://www.thisisbrandx.com/2010/02...tertainment-a-very-different-perspective.html
Mod: Please include link details so we know why we (don't) want to follow a link. In this case, "This report talks about a potential health risk with prolonged 3D gaming and television."
When Avatar launched, I have read a few reports and articles of the following nature:
(i) Warn that some will experience a headache in the cinema, and/or
(ii) Offer/sell services to correct their 3D (or otherwise) vision problems ;-)
This is the first article about permanent side-effects. Would be nice if the link includes more references to the author's conclusion about going blind and Mark Pesce's claim of persistent binocular dysphoria.
Since the Sega testers seems to have suffered from these permanent effects, I assume they sued Sega ? What technology did Sega VR use ?
... and finally, I see brief reporting on 3D pr0n on the same site:
http://www.thisisbrandx.com/2010/02/the-xxx-factor-in-3d-tv-and-mobile-phone-apps.html
EDIT:
The set up is missing a pair of flippers. The first time I saw it, I thought it's a scuba diving game.
May give it a try if I see it in a local arcade.
EDIT 2:
Interesting since we have not seen any Insomniac 3D demoes at all.
Kotaku has an update and 2 gameplay videos:
http://kotaku.com/5475308/up-close-with-metal-gear-arcade/gallery/
It looks like the controller controls the motion while head tracking controls the aiming reticule.
