Alan Wake: Microsoft preparing to leave PC gamers behind (again)

[Neb]

Really?

Thief was hardly crap and yet it didn't sell well. Thief II was even less crap and it didn't sell well.

Crysis wasn't crap and it didn't sell well.

Baseless claims considering Crysis sold well (min 1.5 copies within 6-8 months) and broke even said by Cevat himself and Warhead was a financial success.

There are lots of games on PC that aren't "crap" that don't sell well. The CoD series sales were in serious decline which is why it moved to consoles. And consequently started to see sales rise.

People get tired of the same stuff in different box. For console gamers it was a rather new experience. However again without any backing numbers this kind of claims are just smoke. And not to forget good games sell bad on consoles to. PS3 owners should be very familiar with this and all the talk regarding sales in respective threads.

Calling something "crap" because it didn't sell well is just an excuse/cop out. Well there is some truly horrendous crap available Cryostasis for example. You have other stellar and reasonably priced games that are really good that don't sell well. Demigod for example. Which is pirated more than it is bought.

About Demigod, initially more pirated yet it some small time after it was a toplist seller across different countries.

http://kotaku.com/5215528/demigod-18000-customers-100000-pirates

More users than they would have anticipated going by sales, as Wardell says internal data shows that while the game has been purchased by 18,000 people, there have been around 120,000 people trying to play the game over the past week.

So, yes, mostly pirated copies...

Again rather weak and coupled with being in the sales toplist excluding digitial sales just shows people trying to blow a sandstorm out of a handful of dust.

Almost everyone else is moving to console if they can afford to.

My impressions are actually the reverse, more are going over to PC as evident by the large amount of PC building threads/help on building/etc popping up all over the net compared to before. People feed up with crappy framerate, tearing, low standard graphics, failures like the RROD or similar etc and severly limited 'media station' functions. They want to play games from more and wider categories, they want mental stimulation. Hence the PC is there for them.

 

[obonicus]

I didn't say "everyone" though As in any business, the capable ones do make (loads of) money, people producing crap don't.

Except EA is better, quality-wise than it was when it was making money. Activision is at a lull, quality-wise and they're making money hand-over-fist. Quality has nothing to do with it, let's not kid ourselves.

By the way, the sales of used/older games exploded in the last months so maybe, just maybe - the failure could be in the retail pricing politics? Think about that.

Have they 'exploded'? Maybe it's because many more retailers are offering used game services? Think about that.

 

[obonicus]

My impressions are actually the reverse, more are going over to PC as evident by the large amount of PC building threads/help on building/etc popping up all over the net compared to before. People feed up with crappy framerate, tearing, low standard graphics, failures like the RROD or similar etc and severly limited 'media station' functions. They want to play games from more and wider categories, they want mental stimulation. Hence the PC is there for them.

Are you serious? You're going off 'build a PC' threads as a sign that PC-gaming is on an uptick? When even here, a graphics-whore board you don't see people shifting to the technically-superior platform? Maybe they are; the numbers don't point that way and certainly developer support doesn't look like it's headed that way.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

cut stuff ignoring reality

Fine, all PC devs are liars, and any statistics that are shown by 3rd parties are obviously faked. With that attitude there's no reason to even try reasoning.

Last try here at breaking through with common sense. Companies are in this to make money. Large projects need large amounts of cash. Large expenditures require large ROI's. Almost all dev houses that OK large expenditures for AAA titles are moving to console.

Considering there are far more game capable PCs than there are HD consoles, what would you think the companies reasons are for moving to consoles?

Especially when you consider that there are NO royalties to be paid to either MS or Sony when releasing on PC.

In other words, even paying royalties to MS and Sony, and with a smaller userbase, companies can get a larger ROI on consoles with less risk. Pirating is running rampant in the PC game space and companies are doing what they can to survive and make a profit.

Funny how this so closely mirrors the Amiga gaming scene that was also incredibly innundated with rampant piracy. Which still died despite being, by far the best PC gaming platform at the time. With orders of magnitude more games than x86 PCs or Apple PCs.

My impressions are actually the reverse, more are going over to PC as evident by the large amount of PC building threads/help on building/etc popping up all over the net compared to before. People feed up with crappy framerate, tearing, low standard graphics, failures like the RROD or similar etc and severly limited 'media station' functions. They want to play games from more and wider categories, they want mental stimulation. Hence the PC is there for them.

Except I was referring to devs moving to consoles. It doesn't really matter what the consumers are doing if they aren't buying games.

People can bury their heads in the sand all they want. But the fact remains that pirating is decimating the PC landscape.

Hell, even Valve is moving more towards console than PC. Something I never would have expected.

Really, Blizzard is the only major dev I can think of off the top of my head that isn't moving to consoles. I suppose GSC Game World also, but I don't see them as a top tier dev.

Most of the other big devs are in the MMO space which is immune to piracy.

Remedy is just another in a growing chain of devs that are moving towards console first...PC later.

I don't see this trend changing anytime soon unless an effective means of combating piracy is found.

Regards,
SB

 

[pcchen]

About Demigod, initially more pirated yet it some small time after it was a toplist seller across different countries.

To be fair, Demigod is a multi-player only game. Its single player mode is very weak at best, and AI are extremely stupid. That's at least part of the reason why it suffered less, IMHO.

 

[Neb]

Are you serious? You're going off 'build a PC' threads as a sign that PC-gaming is on an uptick? When even here, a graphics-whore board you don't see people shifting to the technically-superior platform? Maybe they are; the numbers don't point that way and certainly developer support doesn't look like it's headed that way.

And I suppose according to you going of nothing is more valid regarding "PC gamers leaving PC for consoles".

 

[obonicus]

And I suppose according to you going of nothing is more valid regarding "PC gamers leaving PC for consoles".

I didn't say that, I have no idea what the gamers are doing. I know what I did, but that's just what it is, one datapoint. What is much clearer is publishers and developers focusing on consoles. Something that wasn't true 5 years ago.

 

[Neb]

Fine, all PC devs are liars, and any statistics that are shown by 3rd parties are obviously faked. With that attitude there's no reason to even try reasoning.

Oh I am not saying they are lairs however you are spinning the truth like the Crysis comment that was my main response target. Selling millions is bad? Breaking even is bad? Warhead being a financial success is nullified?

I am sorry but you have absolutely no credibility against Cevat's own words. I am sure he knows better about his business than some random net user. However he speaks the truth or spins it a bit it is beyond baseless claims.

Companies are in this to make money. Large projects need large amounts of cash. Large expenditures require large ROI's. Almost all dev houses that OK large expenditures for AAA titles are moving to console.

Of course larger projects costs more hence why many former console exclusives have gone multiplatform including PC platform and vice versa. it's more of an insurance as you can't predict how succesfull your game will be when released.

Considering there are far more game capable PCs than there are HD consoles, what would you think the companies reasons are for moving to consoles?

There is no magic game targeting all audiences and tastes. Hence being more owners of capable PCs doesn't mean they will sell more of "X type of game". Otherwise the above comment.

Especially when you consider that there are NO royalties to be paid to either MS or Sony when releasing on PC.

Thats why PC games are cheaper. Thats why small dev houses still give out game after game and have state of the art graphics and tech. Obviously they wouldn't if they would go on minus for each release.

Now I am not saying piracy isn't a problem, it is but it is also greatly exaggerated in many cases. Would be interesting to see charts of valid sources between first launch week and 3 months later.

 

[MfA]

I'm rather shocked at how tunnel-visioned the PC gaming community can be, expecting top notch treatment while providing zero (perhaps even negative) incentive for doing so. Well most of it are actually retroactive driven actions actually, with the crusade against DRM

All DRM on PCs at the moment basically comes down to having to trust a black box rootkit ... game installers shouldn't need root access on a PC IMO.

Why did Microsoft bend over backwards to provide secure paths for the non interactive media without throwing a bone to the software companies? Trusted computing might have been a hard sell, but they could at least have started regulated issuance of signing keys to optical drive manufacturers so installers could check if actual DVD-ROMs were used.

and actively supporting a non-neutral storefront that cares more about promoting its OWN devhouse games than selling others'.

Meh ... the competition sucked in the early days and frankly they still do.

 

[Jack_Tripper]

I'd like to point out for the record, The CoD series wasn't in decline when it jumped to consoles...rather it was on the rise...CoD2 was the first real console release (xbox360 launch title if i recall) and has done well ever since.

Jack

 

[I.S.T.]

I'd like to point out for the record, The CoD series wasn't in decline when it jumped to consoles...rather it was on the rise...CoD2 was the first real console release (xbox360 launch title if i recall) and has done well ever since.

Jack

This is true. CoD had only a few games before the X360 came out(2, IIRC. The original PC game and the PS2 game.)

 

[almighty]

WHAT?!

Your facts are at best non-existent. No one has cracked the damn PS3 yet. Yes, you can copy the games, but you can't use them.

To get burned games to work on your X360? You have to use a firmware hacking device. it's not easy at all.

Look this shit up before you open your mouth and stick your foot in it.

Dude i can buy a new 360, drop it off at 'someones' house and then 2-3hrs later collect a 360 that will play games that i can download from torrents...

Its easy done....

 

[I.S.T.]

Dude i can buy a new 360, drop it off at 'someones' house and then 2-3hrs later collect a 360 that will play games that i can download from torrents...

Its easy done....

Yeah, but how many people know of this?

 

[pcchen]

Yeah, but how many people know of this?

Well, it depends. In some smaller stores here in Taiwan, they provide this "service" almost universally (unless of course they suspect that you are a cop or something).

 

[I.S.T.]

Well, it depends. In some smaller stores here in Taiwan, they provide this "service" almost universally (unless of course they suspect that you are a cop or something).

In the US, it's almost unheard of. I remember reading about modchips for the PS2 and PS1 in gaming mags and on web sites all the time back in the day, especially Sony's attempts to shut them down. I hardly hear about the firmware hacks unless I go onto here, questionable sites or outright illegal ones!

The only current gen console that's easy to pirate is the Wii. That one is insanely easy. I'm separating the handhelds off into their own little universe. Not hard to pirate on them either. -_- Dammit. I mean, it's good for poor bastards like me who wait years until a game is no longer being sold and then download them, but it's not good for the companies selling the games.

 

[almighty]

Yeah, but how many people know of this?

Besides the point, you said "To get burned games to work on your X360? You have to use a firmware hacking device. it's not easy at all"

Its as easy as dropping it off and collecting it.....

The hardest thing is finding someone to do it but thats easy solved with the internet

 

[Mobius1aic]

I'll say it again, it's all about mentality. Too bad people don't value honor anymore.

 

[aaronspink]

Keep dreaming that.

Blizzard has already changed a fundamental building block for most RTS games due to the need to combat piracy. They will no longer be implementing LAN play for any of their multiplayer games moving forward. It obviously still won't remove all pirating of the game. But it cuts off another chunk of freeloading low-lifes.

or makes it so they don't have to code/test a secondary comms path in the game. They already know that battle.net is cracked...

Pretty much the only PC games not suffering "as much" from pirating are those games that require online authentication everytime you play. And the only real way to force this so far is through online authenticated multiplayer.

And I'm sure you have real numbers to back that up? What you don't, gee.

There are already some rumblings of companies wanting to move to full time internet connection required to play their games so that the game can be authenticated at any time. And if there is no internet connection available the game will not run. THAT is how serious the PC gaming houses are taking piracy.

then they'll sell even LESS and there will be MORE pirated copies cause people won't put up with that crap.

You know who does really well at selling games? Stardock. Small indie doing as good if not better biz than the big boys.

That they would rather lose sales of games to people who have no internet in order to combat piracy due to fact that could recoup those losses and more if they could find a way to stop piracy.

then they are on CRACK. Anti-piracy measures only impede the non-pirates. Everyone with half a clue understands this. EVERY single anti-piracy measure has been defeated and always will be. I know several people who always DL the pirated versions even though they have the sealed box copy sitting in a closet simply cause they don't want all the CP junk.

And finally, if PC gaming was as healthy as you believe, you wouldn't see practically all the remaining big name PC devs moving to consoles for primary launch.

Its called Payola.

There's still Blizzard and to a lesser extent Bethesda... Other than that? There some small studios still, but pretty much all the big players are moving to consoles with a token nod to PC. The losses to piracy even on X360 is not nearly as staggering as those suffered by the PC gaming industry.

Gee, could it be because they are getting PAID for timed or exclusives?

 

[pjbliverpool]

If there's more profit to be had on the console side of the fence, business isn't going to hang around on the losing side. There's no complex mystery there at all. Obviously Microsoft wants to control you more too and the 360 is the best place they can have you for that.

On the other hand, Mass Effect was like this too. I'm patient and will happily wait for the PC version. We don't even know if Alan Wake is going to be any good anyway...

Its as simple as this for me. No good PC games, my interest in PC's wane and I don't stump up for new versions of Windows any more. I love PC's but its all driven by the hardware which is in turn driven by what we run on it. Without the software, I may as well get an XP laptop and stick with it.

That said, I'll be extremely suprised if Alan Wake doesn't make it to the PC. Right now, I'm quite certain it will. And if its a little later, its no biggie to me, there are still plenty of games to play in the mean time and i'm more than happy to wait for the better version.

 

[aaronspink]

Really?

Thief was hardly crap and yet it didn't sell well. Thief II was even less crap and it didn't sell well.

Never liked thief. Gameplay was really slow. Not sure it really had mass market appeal.

Crysis wasn't crap and it didn't sell well.

Crysis couldn't run well on almost any hardware available at its release. Hell it still doesn't run that great on the top end cards available.

There are lots of games on PC that aren't "crap" that don't sell well. The CoD series sales were in serious decline which is why it moved to consoles. And consequently started to see sales rise.

because there are only so many times you can play the same friggin game. CoD was nice. then they copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and copied it and... I think you get the point.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how long Blizzard can stay PC centric even with the WoW cash cow. Almost everyone else is moving to console if they can afford to.

Hmm, going to be interesting when the console players get bored of playing CoD remake #1204.