Building an HTPC.. tuner question

[RancidLunchmeat]

Hey there... my main question is about TV tuner cards.

Do I need to purchase a separate antenna(s) to get them to work to get OTA HDTV?

I'm looking to build an HTPC that will also serve as a mid-range gaming rig, and the AVSforums all seem to be building htpc's that are really lagging in any ability to be gaming rigs.

I want a PC that looks like a typical A/V component in form factor, turns on and off with a remote, runs windows, a core i7 processor, 6 gigs of ram, the ability to stream netflix and hulu, can stream content off my DirecTV DVR, wireless internet, BR player (don't need a burner), and can record at least two OTA HDTV broadcast channels while I'm doing whatever else I'm doing... playing games, watching recorded video, watching streaming video, etc..

I was looking at the avermedia duetHD tuner cards that would give me the ability to record or watch four OTA HD channels, but do they come with antennas? Do I need to buy two or four extra antennas?

Thoughts on all of this would be great.

Things have changed quite a bit since I built my last system, a PIV, AGP.

So, I'm looking for mobo suggestions, gpu suggestions, pretty much anything you've got to offer.

I've pretty much determined I want an i7, 6 gigs of DDR3, and a BR player but everything after that is up in the air.

Except for the box that it needs to fit in. Which I really want to be a 'standard' A/V rack size. I looked at some builds and they're building cubes and all kinds of things that just look completely out of place.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Sxotty]

Honestly pretty much any modern video card should work, get something quiet and cool.

HD tuner is trickier I have not seen anywhere that tested how well they actually work and there are huge differences in how well they aquire signals, filter etc... there probably is even in the exact same card produced over different years.

I have an avermedia a180 and a asus made pull I got super cheap on ebay. The asus card does better ...

But I have heard that the avermedia is good as well which made me wonder if they changed the design later in its lifespan.

HDD is trickier if you do not have remote storage (NAS etc) because you need something fast to record and playback, but you want it quiet too.

 

[Blazkowicz]

you might want two hard drives, with OS, games, storage etc. on the first, and most recording done on the second ; that way when you're both recording streams and using the PC or gaming, you should not put all I/O stress on the same drive.

 

[RudeCurve]

I'd recommend a Silverstone or Ahanix box.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/
http://www.ahanix.com/

 

[MfA]

If you want to game on it you should get a double height case though, so you have some room for decent heatsinks (ie. silent ones).

 

[Mize]

If you want to game on it you should get a double height case though, so you have some room for decent heatsinks (ie. silent ones).

Seconded. I went double (full) height so I could put on a good HSF and mine is silent as a result. Small case with a small HSF and you're going to hear fans whining.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Which case did you buy, Mize? And how fast should the HDD speed be? That also seems a bit problematic, not only because of sound, but storage capacity if going with two of them.

I'd get a smaller and probably faster one for gaming, and a larger one for recording. How fast should that large one be?

Also, as far as the gpu goes, there's no problems with any decent cards decoding br video or anything? Just make sure it is hdmi compliant, right?

Thanks.

 

[Mize]

I got a 7200 rpm seagate .10 (avoid the .11s). I went with an antec fusion case co-designed by one of the guys at silentpcreview:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129034

I then used a Scythe mini Ninja for the HSF:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185046

Since I was going for quiet, not gaming I used a passively cooled 9400GT video card and a 5050e Brisbane (45 W Athlon 64 x2) and the HTPC is dead silent unless you stick your ear up to the cabinet.

 

[Mize]

Which case did you buy, Mize? And how fast should the HDD speed be? That also seems a bit problematic, not only because of sound, but storage capacity if going with two of them.

I'd get a smaller and probably faster one for gaming, and a larger one for recording. How fast should that large one be?

Also, as far as the gpu goes, there's no problems with any decent cards decoding br video or anything? Just make sure it is hdmi compliant, right?

Thanks.

If you're going Windows I'd recommend ATI since their audio over HDMI seems better (as of a couple months back). With Linux (my preferred) nV's drivers are loads better. Most every decent GPU over $50 will decode fine.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Thanks! Just the kind of insight I was looking for!

Do you have all the fans on that case running and its still silent? There's two fans plus the PSU, or did you not hook up those side fans?

Also, did you go with the PSU in the case or replace it with something more beefy?

 

[MfA]

IMO tricool fans even on their lowest setting are just not quiet, I'd replace them with Slipstream M's downvolted to run at 600-700 RPM.

Getting a decent quiet cooler on the videocard is probably the hardest ... if you don't mind a hacky solution the Accelero mod on this page looks nice

 

[Mize]

I went with the PSU that came with and I'm using both fans on lowest. You have to realize it's in a cabinet 3 meters from the couch so from there it's totally silent. With the HD on those rubber bumpers it's silent too. Only the DVD-R is noisy (lite on) but I don't use it much. I mainly stream from SMB shares and hulu. MfA is right, however, that there are quieter fans. If I had been able to hear them I would have replaced them.

As for the gpu I bought an MSI passively cooled 9400GT - fine for videos but not so much for games.

 

[Blazkowicz]

you might be surprised how much that little card is fast for older stuff, then. Try a N64 emulator with maxed out AA, or get quake3/openarena to work at native res, that should look nice.
it should run bigger stuff such as doom3, left4dead. I know a friend was much pleased with his 8500GT, maxing out his games

for a better card, you want to seek the best speed/watt ratio. best one is the radeon 4770 (if it doesn't suffer too much shortages). radeon 4670 is especially low power, but weaker.

 

[V3]

If you're going Windows I'd recommend ATI since their audio over HDMI seems better (as of a couple months back). With Linux (my preferred) nV's drivers are loads better. Most every decent GPU over $50 will decode fine.

They are quite troublesome to setup when I got mine several months back. But once you got it working, it's nice to just used a single HDMI cable. I haven't tried it with receiver yet but I read all sorts of incompatibility, so do your research if you're going with HDMI route make sure there is no problem with your receiver.

I also need to disable some process because the ATI drivers would try to handshake the HDMI when I changed channel and back on my TV, and the process was disturbing the TV tuner recording.

It kind of work now. My only problem is that games that don't support HDTV res 1080p, 720p (old games like Warcraft 3 for example), I get black border all around. I can't get the card to scale it to correct aspect or stretch it to fit the whole screen. But it work great with games that does.

I also have lots of tearing, some ghosting in dark scene, etc. DVD playback isn't as good as dedicated player or PS3 even. I've tried many different software too. So now I just stream what I've recorded to PS3, PS3 provides better playback quality. So my HTPC ended up acting for gaming, PVR and editing/encoding. I am happy with the setup in the end.

 

[homerdog]

Quick question: Does anyone know where I can get a USB IR sensor that'll work with media center? Looks like I'll have to buy a media center remote to get one, but I plan on using my Harmony 520 so really all I need is the sensor.

 

[Fox5]

They are quite troublesome to setup when I got mine several months back. But once you got it working, it's nice to just used a single HDMI cable. I haven't tried it with receiver yet but I read all sorts of incompatibility, so do your research if you're going with HDMI route make sure there is no problem with your receiver.

I also need to disable some process because the ATI drivers would try to handshake the HDMI when I changed channel and back on my TV, and the process was disturbing the TV tuner recording.

It kind of work now. My only problem is that games that don't support HDTV res 1080p, 720p (old games like Warcraft 3 for example), I get black border all around. I can't get the card to scale it to correct aspect or stretch it to fit the whole screen. But it work great with games that does.

I also have lots of tearing, some ghosting in dark scene, etc. DVD playback isn't as good as dedicated player or PS3 even. I've tried many different software too. So now I just stream what I've recorded to PS3, PS3 provides better playback quality. So my HTPC ended up acting for gaming, PVR and editing/encoding. I am happy with the setup in the end.

The more you try to get an HTPC to do, the more it fails.

I find Boxee and XBMC give good DVD playback quality out of the box, but Windows Media Center is horrible.
TV tuner support is bad (windows 7 media center fails on resume for me with two separate tuner cards I've tried, and it's apparently not an uncommon issue) and with cable switching to digital, almost all channels are encrypted now. I'd probably go for a MythTV box if TV was my primary concern, but windows comes with included guide data and can play games and blu-rays.
Blu-ray quality is horrible (around the level of upscaled DVDs) using the free included blu-ray software (powerdvd 7) that came with my drive. My $100 stand-alone does a much better job.
As a computer, there are random, unexplained crashes and glitches, mostly relating to media center.

As for gaming, well thankfully more games support the 360 gamepad now, but there's a lack of a good interface to start games. The wireless gyration mouse I have just have signal reliability issues.

My HTPC is very much a PC that happens to be in the living room, it doesn't blend in seamlessly with the AV devices at all due to its quirks.

 

[sunscar]

Anyone know of any nice SFF boxes that'll hold either single or dual 5800s? I'm thinking something shuttle-size, and GPU is negotiable to an extent. So far everything I'm seeing is either in lunch-box form (it has a handle), very low clearance, or has an exposed fan on the front...

 

[Fox5]

Anyone know of any nice SFF boxes that'll hold either single or dual 5800s? I'm thinking something shuttle-size, and GPU is negotiable to an extent. So far everything I'm seeing is either in lunch-box form (it has a handle), very low clearance, or has an exposed fan on the front...

Some of the higher end shuttle XPCs can hold dual 5800s, if you can find single slot 5800s.
Otherwise, you're looking for at least matx.

 

[sunscar]

Some of the higher end shuttle XPCs can hold dual 5800s, if you can find single slot 5800s.
Otherwise, you're looking for at least matx.

Thanks for the info - I'm digging through some shuttle boxes right now, actually, and some thermaltakes, and I think atleast one Lian Li is in there... So far it's looking like either Shuttle or Thermaltake are my best bet. I've got one Silverstone on the list, the SG06, but I'll have to scale back to a smaller GPU board (only fits up to 9" boards).

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Not sure if the 5870 would fit in a Shuttle. I haven't tried putting it in mine. The 5850 would have no problems however. I currently have a 4890 in my Shuttle. Was going to permanently retire my Shuttle, but looks like I may need to go to Japan for a few months this year... /sigh. Getting too old for those loooong flights.

I would also hesitate to use a Shuttle SFF for a HTPC without some modifications. Unless you are using one of the low power Shuttles. Any of the Shuttles meant for high end PC gear generally isn't very quiet without some modifications.

Regards,
SB