Battlefield 3 announced
- Thread starter Dresden
- Start date
Please no! :smile:
My question to Repi would be the spec of the PCs running mulitplayer at the show. Looks smooth as silk and gorgeous.
Hopefully next round of gfx cards will arrive before bf3 hits the shelves, I think it's upgrade time!
So I was clicking around on my Steam account and noticed that I have over 260 hours in BC2. Probably only 200 of these are mine since I let my friend play a lot and he leaves it on the title screen when he's finished for some reason, but still.. BF3 is going to wreck me 
Implementing aim assist on PC is silly, even if you have gamepad support (just look at the result when Crysis 2 tried to do it). You're just asking for rage and pain from one side or the other (or more often, both). Either you implement it "enough" that the people who play with gamepads can be competitive with M+KB and you get rage from the latter because it takes less skill or you don't and the gamepad people get slaughtered. There's no right answer but given that the vast majority of PC gamers use M+KB you can't risk pissing them off by allowing aim assist.
Last edited by a moderator:
That argument has never made any damn sense to me.
"Less skill" so frigging subjective I almost laugh every time I hear it. Quoting Crysis 2's implementation is just dumb, because they didn't bother tweaking it- they simply removed it. Why? Because of the sheer amount of (baseless) rage from the PC community.
The holy grail that is Crysis fully supporting gamepads? Giving them a fair chance with aim assist! Blasphemy!
This is especially amusing considering how incredibly price and high tech most gaming mice are now. Tell me, how does it take "more skill" to use your $40-70 insanely high DPI mouse on your rocketfish trackpad to slaughter those poor PC gamers who are using their standard Dell mice?
Even with aim assist gamepads completely lack precision compared to mice. This is most especially evident when sniping and you need to hit a target- aim assist can (in this situation) complicate matters due to tracking. The reason I prefer a gamepad is its ergonomics, all the buttons are right there in a neat little package that fits in my hand. I can sit in my chair however I want, even from a distance or on a couch.
But I get punished for this on PC gaming.
PC gamers are the whiniest most stuck up bunch out there. If console gamers are epitomized by a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds, than PC gamers most certainly are the elitist snobs who have entitlement complexes.
"Less Skill"
rofl.
"Less skill" so frigging subjective I almost laugh every time I hear it. Quoting Crysis 2's implementation is just dumb, because they didn't bother tweaking it- they simply removed it. Why? Because of the sheer amount of (baseless) rage from the PC community.
The holy grail that is Crysis fully supporting gamepads? Giving them a fair chance with aim assist! Blasphemy!
This is especially amusing considering how incredibly price and high tech most gaming mice are now. Tell me, how does it take "more skill" to use your $40-70 insanely high DPI mouse on your rocketfish trackpad to slaughter those poor PC gamers who are using their standard Dell mice?
Even with aim assist gamepads completely lack precision compared to mice. This is most especially evident when sniping and you need to hit a target- aim assist can (in this situation) complicate matters due to tracking. The reason I prefer a gamepad is its ergonomics, all the buttons are right there in a neat little package that fits in my hand. I can sit in my chair however I want, even from a distance or on a couch.
But I get punished for this on PC gaming.
PC gamers are the whiniest most stuck up bunch out there. If console gamers are epitomized by a bunch of foul mouthed 12 year olds, than PC gamers most certainly are the elitist snobs who have entitlement complexes.
"Less Skill"
rofl.
Last edited by a moderator:
Well, auto-aim/aim-"assist" of any sort is by definition aiding the user to make it easier to aim. i.e. it requires less "work/skill/whatever" to aim to the same level of precision since some of it is being automated.
Now obviously gamepads have a poorer aiming mechanism and thus require some assistance to even be workable, but that's the whole point: you can't balance that properly between two different input devices. What do you do, bump up the one method until it's equal to the other? In what - average gamers or pro gamers? With which sorts of weapons, etc? It just opens up a whole can of worms that's totally unnecessary.
My point was it caused an outcry, and it would do the same in BF3. PC gamers may be whiny/stuck-up but it doesn't change the situation for the developer. They know what they want and are particularly sensitive to things that are perceived as "dumbing down" the experience to a console level, for right or for wrong.
And realistically, if you like gamepad FPS so much more, why not just play on a console? There the field is perfectly level with others playing on exactly the same setup.
Last edited by a moderator:
Your argument completely ignores the presence of high quality, high DPI mice. Like Logitech and Razor.
You're telling me that players that use such hardware cannot seriously contend with gamepad users?
There is already a vast gap out there regarding PC input for games. You have people using cheap Dell mice, people using Nostromo gamepads, Razor\logitech mice.. Some with nice rigs, some without.
Some with nice mousepads, some with wax paper (my friends do this).
Yet, somehow, using gamepads just "ruins everything". No, I think not. The issue here is merely the idea that PC gaming is somehow becoming consolified and thus there is a huge stigma. It's simply mindless.
I always feel kicked in the nuts with PC gaming. "If you want to use a gamepad go to consoles". Oh, right. Since I prefer one input type over another, I'm forced to settle for the inferior, lower quality, version of this title.. Ugh.
You're telling me that players that use such hardware cannot seriously contend with gamepad users?
There is already a vast gap out there regarding PC input for games. You have people using cheap Dell mice, people using Nostromo gamepads, Razor\logitech mice.. Some with nice rigs, some without.
Some with nice mousepads, some with wax paper (my friends do this).
Yet, somehow, using gamepads just "ruins everything". No, I think not. The issue here is merely the idea that PC gaming is somehow becoming consolified and thus there is a huge stigma. It's simply mindless.
I always feel kicked in the nuts with PC gaming. "If you want to use a gamepad go to consoles". Oh, right. Since I prefer one input type over another, I'm forced to settle for the inferior, lower quality, version of this title.. Ugh.
No it doesn't at all - I specifically mentioned that mice tend to be better for aiming. The point that it starts becoming problematic is when you *artificially aid* the aiming in some sort of variable way to try and "level" the playing field.
Not at all! No one cares if you use a gamepad if there's no system that's automatically snapping you to headshots or following people as they move. You can happily play with a gamepad all day long and everyone will be fine with it. It's only when you claim that you can't compete without some sort of auto-aim system that people will answer "then use a mouse" rather than "ok lets artificially prop up this input method".
You're quite welcome to use a gamepad. But don't ask for a crutch for a self-inflicted handicap. You honestly can't understand why that bugs people?
Last edited by a moderator:
Then accept the fact gamepads are the wrong tool for the job, they suck at fps its not the fault of the game or the pc
gamepads suck at fps games on consoles, If you want to remove screws with pliers instead of a screwdriver thats your choice but dont expect it to be as good and dont expect people to re-design screws so thay can be easily removed with pliers
I myself know a considerable number of good PC players who like to game on using very low sensitivity, you could easily outdo them with a controller and without any aim assist as far as aim speed goes, but that's not how it works since skill is much more about point and shoot.
Anyways I'm primarily a PC gamer and have had a few pro experience my belt but I've also played a good few shooting games online where others use a mouse but I use a controller and I can honestly say that I am still very much competitive (I'd state Crysis 2 as an example, even if it includes aim assist). And in few games like Gears of War I manage to play better than others almost always as I have had years of practice with that game, you can imagine how much easier it is to snipe with a mouse in Gears, but yet since I've played that game pretty much exclusively with a gamepad hence I went on to develop lots of skillshots and tricks of my own that I use while using a pad.
Now ofcourse this argument isn't valid for every game and its definitely not valid for a game like Unreal Tournament and Quake that rely on twitch shooting, but most games these days relay a lot more on tactics/map control than twitch shooting. The fact is that I used a controller and still managed to hold on my own against good players that used a mouse.
Anyways I'm primarily a PC gamer and have had a few pro experience my belt but I've also played a good few shooting games online where others use a mouse but I use a controller and I can honestly say that I am still very much competitive (I'd state Crysis 2 as an example, even if it includes aim assist). And in few games like Gears of War I manage to play better than others almost always as I have had years of practice with that game, you can imagine how much easier it is to snipe with a mouse in Gears, but yet since I've played that game pretty much exclusively with a gamepad hence I went on to develop lots of skillshots and tricks of my own that I use while using a pad.
Now ofcourse this argument isn't valid for every game and its definitely not valid for a game like Unreal Tournament and Quake that rely on twitch shooting, but most games these days relay a lot more on tactics/map control than twitch shooting. The fact is that I used a controller and still managed to hold on my own against good players that used a mouse.
Last edited by a moderator:
I have several gamepads I dont use them on fps games because there is something better I dont bitch about it I just use something better, just like I dont use a kb or mouse in racing games I use a steering wheel
right tool for the right job simples
you can see some of mine here :
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=55159&highlight=momo
right tool for the right job simples
you can see some of mine here :
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=55159&highlight=momo
That's great! Definitely it's possible to be competitive as there's a wide range of skill regardless of input method. I think you'll agree that overall a mouse allows you to be more accurate, but clearly not so much so that it's impossible to play without one.
And that's awesome - people should definitely be able to use whatever they prefer. The only problem starts when you begin to apply stuff like auto-aim.
I definitely use my 360 pad for racing and fighting games on the PC as well, but I prefer a M+KB for FPS just due to the increased precision. I don't like fighting my input device to make it do what I want, and I like having it "automatically" do it because I can't even less
Last edited by a moderator:
What?
@Andrew
You honestly can't understand why some may prefer to use gamepads on PC? For fps? If you really think that asking for aim assist is "begging for a crutch due to an inferior choice" and those who oppose it have every right to whine about it.. Then fine.
But no, I don't agree whatsoever with your position. This whole thing is just rooted in elitism.
w\e I give up with this thread. Sorry for asking such a horribly 'stupid' question.
Last edited by a moderator:
So I was clicking around on my Steam account and noticed that I have over 260 hours in BC2. Probably only 200 of these are mine since I let my friend play a lot and he leaves it on the title screen when he's finished for some reason, but still.. BF3 is going to wreck me
I'm somewhere around 275. Not sure how many hours I put into WoW but it was far less and I'm far more ashamed of that waste of time than I am with my BF "dedication". Switching to BF3 on day one of course.
Oh no, I totally understand it and will continue to argue that you should be able to do it.
Asking for aim assist *is* a crutch, there's not even a debate on this. Whether you think it's legitimate or not is another story, but it's fundamentally an admission that it's harder to aim on a gamepad and thus it requires "help". Do you disagree with that?
I could go further and say... I want to play by voice (there are obvious advantages). And since it's sort of hard to say "turn right 37.2 degrees and then fire" while still being competitive, I want assistance such that I can just say "aim at player X". Or similarly, I want to just say "pew" and have it automatically fire a bullet at whatever enemy is closest to the middle of my screen. It's ridiculous of course, but it's the same concept taken to the extreme. Where do you draw the line on how much context-sensitive assistance is acceptable? It's easiest to draw it at none.
The thing that people oppose is that an input method should be *independent of any entities or objectives in the game*. i.e. use what you want to rotate and aim your character, but the game should not use any knowledge of where potential targets are in the game to "help" you, particularly on PC. If you require such help to aim then the problem lies with the input mechanism, not the game.
I simply want a level playing field where I know that if someone headshots me they did that themselves - regardless of their input mechanism - without any help from the game. No sticky on targets, no "help" following me when I'm on the move. Those things detract from the fun. How is that "elite" at all?
I fully support your right to use the gamepad unassisted on PC, but don't be whining about getting beaten up on by people using a mouse.
Dude, just let it go. I cannot put into words how little I care about your sentiments at this point, savvy?
I already stated that arguing against a tidal wave of opposition is fruitless, so I'm not going to invest any more effort in a futile fight.
fyi, I don't whine about getting "Beaten by kb\mouse users". But I'm sure you like to take it that way.
I already stated that arguing against a tidal wave of opposition is fruitless, so I'm not going to invest any more effort in a futile fight.
fyi, I don't whine about getting "Beaten by kb\mouse users". But I'm sure you like to take it that way.
