IE8 release today?

[Silent_Buddha]

IE8 on XP32SP3 sucks. Why does it create loads of handles and threads per tab? The original iexplore.exe process also creates many "jobs" which apparently is used for the tab handling.

In Firefox 3.0.7, if I create hundreds of empty tabs, nothing happens wrt. handles and threads.

In IE8, if I create only 10 empty tabs (empty as in, not load that tab info page or anything, just blank page) it creates several threads (sometimes 9, sometimes 2 or 1) per tab and opens 30-40 handles.

Part of the reason (probably the main one) is so that if a page misbehaves and causes a page fault or crash, it doesn't take down the entire IE process but instead only takes down the single tab or small group of tabs. Likewise it is now able to instantly reload a crashed "tab."

It also helps to keep memory usage per process down to a reasonable level. Especially if you use IE for long browsing sessions or need to leave it open for long periods of time.

EDIT
For a better explanation...

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/11/ie8-and-loosely-coupled-ie-lcie.aspx

Regards,
SB

 

[Bludd]

Part of the reason (probably the main one) is so that if a page misbehaves and causes a page fault or crash, it doesn't take down the entire IE process but instead only takes down the single tab or small group of tabs. Likewise it is now able to instantly reload a crashed "tab."

It also helps to keep memory usage per process down to a reasonable level. Especially if you use IE for long browsing sessions or need to leave it open for long periods of time.

EDIT
For a better explanation...

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/11/ie8-and-loosely-coupled-ie-lcie.aspx

Regards,
SB

I get the reliability argument but not the performance argument. This seems like a way to make it horrible slow if you open a lot of tabs.

I tried my experiment. Opened many, many tabs and went to a few randomly chosen tabs and loaded some sites. Then I created a few more tabs before I clicked file - exit. I chose to close all tabs and nothing happened except a bunch of tabs were closed. I had opened A LOT of tabs, but now only 36 tabs remains.

Doesn't seem very reliable after all. This is the second time I have provoked this behaviour.

Here's a shot of the iexplore processes.



After 10 minutes or so I tried closing it again, and now it closed.

 

[RudeCurve]

If I then right click on a link and select open in a new tab it will always append it at the end of the group of tabs. In IE7 when you do this it always added the new tab immediately after the current tab and then appended each new tab to the end of successive new tabs until such time as you left the current tab.

Oh ok I know what you're saying now, yeah it would be nice if there's an option to select where new tabs from links are opened. This is where Opera is better as it had that option for a long time now.

EDIT: Actually I just found out that IE8 does open new tabs from links right next to the highlighted tab. It only appends to the end if you have room left on your tab bar to see it eg it does it if you already have a bunch of tabs that go off the tab bar. In other words you don't have to scroll all the way off the tab bar. I just tried it right now. It's pretty smart actually, kudos to MS.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Oh ok I know what you're saying now, yeah it would be nice if there's an option to select where new tabs from links are opened. This is where Opera is better as it had that option for a long time now.

EDIT: Actually I just found out that IE8 does open new tabs from links right next to the highlighted tab. It only appends to the end if you have room left on your tab bar to see it eg it does it if you already have a bunch of tabs that go off the tab bar. In other words you don't have to scroll all the way off the tab bar. I just tried it right now. It's pretty smart actually, kudos to MS.

Nope just tried it with the release version and it still appends to the end in a group of tabs... It only works the old way if you turn off tab grouping, but tab grouping is handy enough that I'm debating whether to turn it off or not. As even on a 30" monitor I'll get occasions when newly opened tabs will just scroll off the area forcing me to have to then scroll through tabs to find them. Bloody annoying.

Regards,
SB

 

[RudeCurve]

I have the release version too and it works on mine. Try resizing your browser window to make it artificially smaller then open a bunch of tabs until the scroll arrow appears. Now goto any of the first tabs and then right click on a link in said tab and it will open up a tab right next to the one you click the link from.

 

[RudeCurve]

Nope just tried it with the release version and it still appends to the end in a group of tabs... It only works the old way if you turn off tab grouping, but tab grouping is handy enough that I'm debating whether to turn it off or not. As even on a 30" monitor I'll get occasions when newly opened tabs will just scroll off the area forcing me to have to then scroll through tabs to find them. Bloody annoying.

Regards,
SB

Ah ok I finally see what you're saying now, you don't want new tabs to append to the end of the tab group.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Ah ok I finally see what you're saying now, you don't want new tabs to append to the end of the tab group.

Yeah. Figured there was some miscommunication going on at some point. If the tab groups would work exactly like tabs worked in IE7 except staying within the constraints of the tab group I would be in heaven.

As it is, I have to debate on whether the benefits of tab grouping are worth the annoyance of having new tabs always open at the end of the tab group. For example, if I have say 5 groups of 5 tabs each. And I'm in any group but the last one. If I close the last tab (keeping previous tabs open for later reference) it doesn't dump me into the next available tab but instead returns me to the previous tab in the tab group.

It's invaluable for keeping my browsing organized without having to resort to multiple windows. And the ability to eject/remove a tab from a tab group to then form a new tab group from it is just incredible.

Having to hunt down and scroll for that image I just opened in a new tab after opening many new tabs for later reference however is a royal pain in the arse.

Regards,
SB

 

[Bludd]

I've been using IE8 some and I can't believe how slow new tabs are to load. Press CTRL-T, it takes 2 seconds for a new tab to be ready and usable. Middle-clicking to open a link in a new tab is even slower. In FF3 it instantaneous. IE8 is basically unusable for me for this reason.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I've been using IE8 some and I can't believe how slow new tabs are to load. Press CTRL-T, it takes 2 seconds for a new tab to be ready and usable. Middle-clicking to open a link in a new tab is even slower. In FF3 it instantaneous. IE8 is basically unusable for me for this reason.

Not sure why it's so slow for you. I currently have 43 tabs open and new ones open instantly... Maybe it's because I'm on Vista 64 with 8 gigs of memory.

Regards,
SB

 

[suryad]

I dont have Vista 64 but neither do I ever have 43 tabs open at one time but its still very fast on my machine.

 

[willardjuice]

I really wished this had color management support so I could ditch Firefox.

 

[Bludd]

Not sure why it's so slow for you. I currently have 43 tabs open and new ones open instantly... Maybe it's because I'm on Vista 64 with 8 gigs of memory.

Regards,
SB

Maybe. I have Win7 64 but I haven't tried IE8 there yet.

 

[willardjuice]

Maybe. I have Win7 64 but I haven't tried IE8 there yet.

Also remember the public beta of Windows 7 uses an older build of IE8.

 

[Bludd]

Also remember the public beta of Windows 7 uses an older build of IE8.

And it's not updatable with the final release?

 

[RudeCurve]

It's fast on my machine to which is running XP with 4GB and I have 25 tabs open in a single browser with two browsers open which equals 50 tabs.

 

[willardjuice]

And it's not updatable with the final release?

It is not since it uses a slightly different build than Vista (ie: tabs appearing as multiple windows in Windows 7's new taskbar). Since they are changing the taskbar API for the final release of Windows 7, it makes little sense to make a special version of IE8 just for a beta operating system that no one will use in three months.

 

[Bludd]

It is not since it uses a slightly different build than Vista (ie: tabs appearing as multiple windows in Windows 7's new taskbar). Since they are changing the taskbar API for the final release of Windows 7, it makes little sense to make a special version of IE8 just for a beta operating system that no one will use in three months.

Thanks for the info.

 

[CEO]

So whats your expirience with the RC!?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Also I've noticed that one of the newer updates to IE8 has changed the behavior slightly.

Before, if you opened IE8 normally (from the start menu for example) and then opened tabs and new windows off that. You would have multiple instances but all instances would be linked to each other. IE - if something catastrophic happened it would take out all the linked instances of IE8.

Then if you opend a new instance of IE8 from the start menu, it and all it's offspring would be linked only among this new instance. Thus in the case above there was a catastrophic failure which brought down all linked instances, then it wouldn't affect this one. So this group of windows and tabs would remain.

The new way IE8 works is that all IE8 instances regardless of how you open a new windows (whether from start menu or otherwise) are all the same linked instance.

Found this out the other day as some website I go to are either poorly coded or whatever and tend to grow in memory size if left running. So what I do, rather than closing the window and reopening it, is to just go to task manager and end task on any instance of IE with a large memory footprint.

Works great as IE8 detects a crash and instantly reloads the page. And I've got it back as a fresh page. Not only that it cleans up IE8 instances that aren't closed for some reason. I suspect bad websites are doing something to prevent IE8 from completely closing out a tabbed instance.

Anyway, if you happen to hit on the original controlling instance of IE8 it causes all instances of windows to crash and close. Not all that bad since the next time you open IE8 it'll ask if you want to reopen your previous session.

Regards,
SB

 

[Sazar]

Also I've noticed that one of the newer updates to IE8 has changed the behavior slightly.

Before, if you opened IE8 normally (from the start menu for example) and then opened tabs and new windows off that. You would have multiple instances but all instances would be linked to each other. IE - if something catastrophic happened it would take out all the linked instances of IE8.

Then if you opend a new instance of IE8 from the start menu, it and all it's offspring would be linked only among this new instance. Thus in the case above there was a catastrophic failure which brought down all linked instances, then it wouldn't affect this one. So this group of windows and tabs would remain.

The new way IE8 works is that all IE8 instances regardless of how you open a new windows (whether from start menu or otherwise) are all the same linked instance.

Found this out the other day as some website I go to are either poorly coded or whatever and tend to grow in memory size if left running. So what I do, rather than closing the window and reopening it, is to just go to task manager and end task on any instance of IE with a large memory footprint.

Works great as IE8 detects a crash and instantly reloads the page. And I've got it back as a fresh page. Not only that it cleans up IE8 instances that aren't closed for some reason. I suspect bad websites are doing something to prevent IE8 from completely closing out a tabbed instance.

Anyway, if you happen to hit on the original controlling instance of IE8 it causes all instances of windows to crash and close. Not all that bad since the next time you open IE8 it'll ask if you want to reopen your previous session.

Regards,
SB

I haven't tried this out but it sounds just like Chrome and how it operates when there is a failure in a tab. Each tab runs as it's own instance and can be killed as needed.