Deferred Rendering on PS3 (Was KZ2 Tech Discussion)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Silent_Buddha said:
/cry... /sob...

No AA? /sigh.

I can't count how many games visually just go into the toilet (for me) when I see all the jaggies crawling around. GT5 could have looked so good for example. But it looks like utter poo in motion with horrible crawling aliasing in what might otherwise have been a fantasic graphics showcase.

Here's to hoping next next gen consoles get it right and enforce the use of AA. /sigh...

Regards,
SB
Click to expand...
Off topic, but Prologue uses 4x multi-sample anti-aliasing when it's rendering a 1280x720 image.
 
sebbbi said:
Light indexed deferred renderers do not have g-buffers. You have light index buffers instead.

We were evaluating a lot of different deferred shading (and forward shading) methods for our new Xbox 360 gam
Click to expand...

Little bit off-topic what game is the one you're working on?
 
That's an awesome video - they have some crazy performance monitoring going on and look at the huge number of SPE jobs! Also interesting to see the full memory budget being monitored. I'll be looking at this video a bit more from time to time. :)

EDIT: luckily I'm still an Insider, downloading the HD version now.
 
Aeoniss said:
The total figures are, as stated, 458MB. All those numbers added up.

Something isn't right if the Gbuffer is 36MB. Not even I believe the OS is as small as 18MB..

Unless some of those numbers were listed there outside of the context of "Total" memory.. But that wouldn't make sense really..
Click to expand...

I just see "main RAM" at 101MB and "video RAM" at 190.04MB. That's just 291.04MB. How are you getting 458MB?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Arwin said:
This should help discussion:

killzone_stats.png
Click to expand...

thanks for the nice still. how do you interpret the graph near top-center?
 
Yes, and the colored bits in those bars correspond to the color coded jobs in the overlay.
 
back on deferred rendering: it's so good and combined with the art direction for this game produces graphics so beautiful that it forced anti-fans to the ground to crawl and look for 'input lag' and 'input acceleration', 'field of view could be higher!', etc.

Mod : This is the Technical forum, where discussion should be technical, and not about attitudes of gamers. Rest of post removed.

edit:i still have it offline, where would it be appropriate to post, as i believe it could make for an interesting discussion: see also my 360 hd dvd thread with more than 1000 views :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
soulchild said:
Still haven't received my copy of Killzone 2 yet, so I can't really comment on the following claims and the credibility of the author:

http://ps3thevolution.com/2009/03/09/killzone-2-smoke-and-mirrors-from-a-cgi-artist/

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Odd that he calls KZ2 a 'shadow cheat' and forgets to mention that GeOW and GeOW2 don't have any dynamic shadows at all :rolleyes:

I also have no idea what hes talking about 'real lights', there is a scene in the game where theres over 200 lights in one frame.

That person is nothing but stirring, and doesn't seem to know much for someone who claims to be a cg artist.

With that being said, Guerrilla avoided the use of normal mapping which is a cpu heavy process.
Click to expand...

What the hell is this guy on about? theres so much wrong in just this sentence its not funny.
 
soulchild said:
Still haven't received my copy of Killzone 2 yet, so I can't really comment on the following claims and the credibility of the author:

http://ps3thevolution.com/2009/03/09/killzone-2-smoke-and-mirrors-from-a-cgi-artist/

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Lol, that's an 'interesting' article, don't let Dargakis see it he might have a stroke ;)

The shadow cheating thing is hardly shocking, for instance COD4/5 (which he holds in such high regard) use it blatantly, it's absolutely everywhere (and thanks to some low res textures) is immediately recognisable whenever you see blocky shadows.

I think everyone noticed that not all the lighting in KZ2 was real time, even from the demo, and doubt anyone even cares (are there even any FPS/TPS where all the lighting/shadowing are real time?)

I do think Gears 2 had better texture work though (although it could just be the third person view). KZ2 has quite a few low res textures spiced up with specular/normal maps.

I don't know what he's talking about by his 'flat textures with no normal maps' comments though, basically everything is bump/ normal mapped in KZ2 (like every other shooter). I even noticed some floors that seemed to be parallax mapped (I think the bullet holes are too)

And I seriously doubt this guy is an 'industy insider' he sounds too much like a 360 fanboy, with ridiculous statements like these:
"the weapons were very COD4 like which makes no sense. If we were in the future, say… 5052, would we still be using machine guns? Hell, would we still be using bullets?"
Click to expand...


No everyone would be carrying laser pistols, like they do in Halo 3 (oh wait they don't).
 
Betanumerical said:
Odd that he calls KZ2 a 'shadow cheat' and forgets to mention that GeOW and GeOW2 don't have any dynamic shadows at all :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

While they have dynamic shadows they also have large amounts or pre-baked shadows.

I also have no idea what hes talking about 'real lights', there is a scene in the game where theres over 200 lights in one frame.
Click to expand...

I doubt those are all dynamic lightsources. Many looks like they are switched at distance to fake lights and it is interesting (looking at Digitalfoundry.com videos) that lightsource emitted light quite rapidly fades away at near dsitances (rockets/effects etc).

Otherwise it sounded like a frustration rant of things that really are common in console games.
 
Lucid_Dreamer said:
How does that detract from his point (true or not)...at all? :???: Why so defensive?
Click to expand...

What defensiveness? I am agreeing with his point except that Gears 1/2 does have some dynamic shadows in contrast to "don't have any dynamic shadows at all ".

To me it seems you are the one being overly defensive. Like if Gears having some dynamic shadows was a sin or something that should be "hush hush"... :???:
 
Betanumerical said:
...
I also have no idea what hes talking about 'real lights', there is a scene in the game where theres over 200 lights in one frame.
Click to expand...

Did you count this number of the lights by yourself?
The most of these lights are invisible (no lamps eg). But they help you to fake a global illumination etc.
Chapter 9. Deferred Shading in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Many lights are needed only to mimic a global illumination-style look, and shadows just ruin the illusion.
Click to expand...
But what this CGI guy (in dubio pro reo) means, is, that there visible lights (lamps) which do not cause shadows (like in HL2). But on there other hand: What is his problem with "pre-rendered" shadows? If there is a constant light source, why should you need a real-time shadow of this light source? There some (some) pre-calculated shadows in Doom 3, too (projected textures).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top