The Game Technology discussion thread *Read first post before posting*

Tap In said:
well I appreciate the varied lighting (tracks are lit differently randomly each time you play) and it looks good but the borked IQ under the PP is FUGLY.

Man I hope there is a patch to clean it up somehow, if not why would they use this solution and how does PS3 use MLAA if MSAA is hosed and why can 360 not do that?
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I fear that many future 360 titles will suffer from jaggies or sub-HD resolutions especially now that deferred rendering seems to be the new hot thing engine-wise...it seems that PS3 is either better designed for deferred or that the devs just don't push or find new ways/tricks for a better AA solution at deferred rendering for the 360 - from what I've seen and heard from Dice I bet that Battlefield 3 will be the first game that the PS3 version will be marginally better...quote me on that.

It's weird and at the same time interesting to see that the decision of MS to create an easy/more frendly system to develop for may at the end backfired when more and more devs concentrate on the more difficult & complex hardware of the PS3 by choosing it as the lead platform for parity reasons.

Either way it's disappointing that we don't have a first party dev pushing the 360 to it's limits - system wars BS aside (which I seriously don't give a **** about) it will be interesting to see how far the 360 can go in terms of eye candy at a game built specifically for the system...this game may be the Kingdoms project from Crytek but again we're still talking about a multiplatform engine and maybe also an online focused title (MMO?) that sadly can't or won't push the system to it's limits.
 
Trejser said:
There are games with better versions on PS3 - like Castlevania, FFXIII, Wanted and Bionic Commando. Maybe you're talking about Dice games?
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Of course I know that there are games better on the PS3 but I actually talked about games with a deferred renderer and more specifically that BF3 will be the first game to show that the devs concentration on Cell will make a difference between the two versions in future titles.

Laa-Yosh said:
You seem to live on a different planet.
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What exactly sounds "alien" to you? that PS3 is gaining dev support and it's lately becoming more and more often the lead platform even though it's the more complex hardware? that the PS3 seems to have a brighter future with deferred rendering and BF3 will most likely be the proof? or that we don't have a first party dev from MS that pushes the 360 like Naughty Dog or Guerilla?
 
I wouldn't hold your breath for BF3 on PS3 to be superior. We've heard that song and dance before, most recently Crysis 2.

But this line of discussion is way OT :p
 
at least the spu stuff on BF3 should be a lot more advanced and deeper than Crytek's barely scratching the surface...
 
Rangers said:
I wouldn't hold your breath for BF3 on PS3 to be superior. We've heard that song and dance before, most recently Crysis 2.

But this line of discussion is way OT :p
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The same who said our custom AA & 3D are equal to sony tech... no much surprise... by the way, BF is a total different engine to cryengine, most oriented to deferred tech, so in 'theory' ps3 could have more advantages here...
 
Rangers said:
I wouldn't hold your breath for BF3 on PS3 to be superior. We've heard that song and dance before, most recently Crysis 2.

But this line of discussion is way OT :p
Click to expand...

I'm not implying that the 360 is not equally capable, I'm just saying that Dice seems to concentrate on the PS3's strength which is the SPU's/Cell on BF3 and I'm just wondering if they'll bother to exploit/explore the 360 hardware as much like for example finding an MLAA-like AA solution (as from what I understand MSAA is not an option and maybe not even a good one?)...I guess we'll see but I personally doubt that BF3 will be identical on both platfroms.

My post moved here from the IQ analysis thread after getting a warning so I'm guessing talking about things like that it's OK in this thread.
 
Not only that but didn't Laa Yosh mention something about hint that DICE is staying below 20mb frame buffer so they don't have to tile 3 times thus reducing resolution?Or something like that...
 
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Two hugely important points - 1) BF isn't out yet. 2) There's been little talk about the 360 version, so we don't know what it is or isn't accomplishing. At this point any discussion on how Frostbite 2 is using the console hardware needs to be postponed until we get real, comparable information.
 
The three main multiplatform engines we're aware of right now - CE3 UE3 and FB2 - are all converging to similar feature sets and architectures, although Epic doesn't seem interested in any kind of realtime global illumination yet. But they're all aiming for platform parity for obvious reasons, and any differences will likely be very subtle - we here at B3D will be aware of them but the majority of console gamer's won't ever notice.

The other major multiplatform engines are aiming for light pre-pass for now, games like Dead Space, GTA, or simply won't have the resources because of 60fps refresh rate like COD and Rage. Racing games are - at least to me - a different league, but the remaining multiplatform devs have demonstrated a good ability to keep platform parity there as well.

As for PS3-only engines with fully deferred shading, I'm only aware of Killzone, and because it's still stuck with LDR I don't consider it to be the full monty the way C2 or BF3 is (as they're using more or less proper HDR rendering). Uncharted isn't fully deferred, neither is LBP or Infamous. I'm not aware of any other graphically advanced title in development but I'm open to suggestions here.

X360 on the other hand has whatever Sebbi's working on - from his comments it sounds like an outdoor follow-up to Trials HD, taking place in mountains because he's working on terrain rendering with virtual textures, on top of the already existing fully deferred and HDR renderer.


So I don't see how PS3 is suddenly the king of deferred rendering when it's clearly working on the Xbox just as well. Also, post processing AA is still a new field of research and no holy grail has been found yet - even MLAA has a lot of inherent problems and there are other developments like DLAA from Force Unleashed 2 which looks quite impressive and has no trouble running efficiently on the X360 either. And we've already discussed that sub-HD isn't as important as some make it sound anyway, especially when combined with any kind of AA.
 
Yeah, I recall repi promising a talk about the X360 version (or was it the terrain renderer?) for Siggraph 2011, that's about august or so, too lazy to look it up right now.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Two hugely important points - 1) BF isn't out yet. 2) There's been little talk about the 360 version, so we don't know what it is or isn't accomplishing. At this point any discussion on how Frostbite 2 is using the console hardware needs to be postponed until we get real, comparable information.
Click to expand...

Well I guess you're right guys it's early to tell how the 360 version will turn out and this is just my prediction and nothing more so I'll stop posting anything Frostbite 2 related until we get more info from Dice.

There was some talk about an event that Dice will share some more info on the 360 version IIRC - is it this month?
 
Laa-Yosh said:
Yeah, I recall repi promising a talk about the X360 version (or was it the terrain renderer?) for Siggraph 2011, that's about august or so, too lazy to look it up right now.
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Yep SIGGRAPH 2011 for info on the tech behind 360 version, that would be around August, though I suspect that we will get to see the game on consoles before then. Presumably around E3.
 
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Laa-Yosh said:
The three main multiplatform engines we're aware of right now - CE3 UE3 and FB2 - are all converging to similar feature sets and architectures, although Epic doesn't seem interested in any kind of realtime global illumination yet. But they're all aiming for platform parity for obvious reasons, and any differences will likely be very subtle - we here at B3D will be aware of them but the majority of console gamer's won't ever notice.

The other major multiplatform engines are aiming for light pre-pass for now, games like Dead Space, GTA, or simply won't have the resources because of 60fps refresh rate like COD and Rage. Racing games are - at least to me - a different league, but the remaining multiplatform devs have demonstrated a good ability to keep platform parity there as well.

As for PS3-only engines with fully deferred shading, I'm only aware of Killzone, and because it's still stuck with LDR I don't consider it to be the full monty the way C2 or BF3 is (as they're using more or less proper HDR rendering). Uncharted isn't fully deferred, neither is LBP or Infamous. I'm not aware of any other graphically advanced title in development but I'm open to suggestions here.

X360 on the other hand has whatever Sebbi's working on - from his comments it sounds like an outdoor follow-up to Trials HD, taking place in mountains because he's working on terrain rendering with virtual textures, on top of the already existing fully deferred and HDR renderer.


So I don't see how PS3 is suddenly the king of deferred rendering when it's clearly working on the Xbox just as well. Also, post processing AA is still a new field of research and no holy grail has been found yet - even MLAA has a lot of inherent problems and there are other developments like DLAA from Force Unleashed 2 which looks quite impressive and has no trouble running efficiently on the X360 either. And we've already discussed that sub-HD isn't as important as some make it sound anyway, especially when combined with any kind of AA.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but how the 360 can achieve better result of the ps3 in deferred tech? Just to know. I think anyone here said ps3 is the 'king', but from what we know now has some advantage in a full framebuffer with deferred, physics & other tech similar to post processing works (how 360 in trasparencies & unified shader...) by the way I don't think the rage engine of R use full deferred method, I don't know about DS2 but graphically appears pretty flat in others details... to me appears pretty obvious ps3 is more suitable for that tech. About DLAA of unleashed 2, on 360 works worse compared to ps3 (probably for its nature how PP) & imho isn't so different to custom AA solution of crytek, in motions. Same appears motion blur which use almost the double of samples on the ps3; sorry for my ot
 
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Killzone 2/3 and Trials HD are pretty much the only full deferred rendered games I know of, rest of them just use a light pre-pass
 
What about console version of Metro? LPP or full DR?

Another question: Are Gears of War games using HDR? :)
 
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