aa

[Rayne]

I dont what is it and whats nv's ?

There was a 4096x4096 limit for the ATi cards (8192x8192 for nVidia). This is a problem for the programmer, cause, if i want to do 2x2 SSAA by software, i'm limited to 2048x2048 max screen resolution. So, the users with 2560x1600 screens won't be able to enjoy it Anyway, i dunno if this limit has changed. The last ATi card that i owned was the 9800Pro. But, i keep working on this, and i hope to bring this feature someday.

 

[Xmas]

I would claim that it is still highly relevant for Linux, OSX, and non-Windows Mobile mobile phone platforms with 3D capability. Perhaps its 'outdatedness' somewhat enhances its cross platform portability by virtue of demanding less of the OS driver model.

Not sure why you'd exclude Windows Mobile from that list...

 

[MDolenc]

There was a 4096x4096 limit for the ATi cards (8192x8192 for nVidia). This is a problem for the programmer, cause, if i want to do 2x2 SSAA by software, i'm limited to 2048x2048 max screen resolution. So, the users with 2560x1600 screens won't be able to enjoy it Anyway, i dunno if this limit has changed. The last ATi card that i owned was the 9800Pro. But, i keep working on this, and i hope to bring this feature someday.

I think you should probably be just fine with this as long as you're on DX10 class hardware. All DX10 class hardware should report back 8k x 8k even in DX8/9.

 

[Davros]

can you not split the texture in half ?

 

[Sc4freak]

Yes, you can do something similar to tiling on the Xbox 360. But, as usual, you pay a cost in vertex processing.

 

[Davros]

Im confused here ("what you Dav never")

if i cover a triangle with 2 textures instead of one its still 3 vertex's ???

 

[MDolenc]

That's not the problem... Problem is you have to render scene twice. Same as for split frame rendering in SLI or tiling rendering mode in CF. Render geometry for upper part of the frame and then again for lower part. All geometry, just different viewports (maybe you could drop some objects exclusively above or below "ground" plane).

 

[Davros]

That's not the problem... Problem is you have to render scene twice.

Ok now im even more confused

Take this pic as an example


Lets say you want the computer screen really great quality (outlined in red)
so you want to use a really large texture like 4096x8192 and to get around the 4096x4096 limit
you create a 4096x8192 texture and split it in two, then cover the screen with those two textures.
Why do you have to render the screen twice ?

 

[MDolenc]

You're forgeting what Rayne is trying to do...
How do you bring super sampling AA into a game that doesn't support AA on a hardware that doesn't expose super sampling? You inject another render target into application. All rendering will go to this new render target and when it's done you resolve that texture to backbuffer. To do this you need for example a twice the resolution off screen render target/texture. When you get up to 2560x1600 however you hit a problem since you can't create a 5120x3200 render target...

 

[Davros]

ok thanks..

 

[Rayne]

You're forgeting what Rayne is trying to do...
How do you bring super sampling AA into a game that doesn't support AA on a hardware that doesn't expose super sampling? You inject another render target into application. All rendering will go to this new render target and when it's done you resolve that texture to backbuffer. To do this you need for example a twice the resolution off screen render target/texture. When you get up to 2560x1600 however you hit a problem since you can't create a 5120x3200 render target...

Yes, that is the exact resume of the situation with my little project.

 

[sebbbi]

Yes, that is the exact resume of the situation with my little project.

All DX10 capable Radeons and Geforces seem to support up to 8192x8192 sized render targets according to DX9 caps viewer. I have tested this with Radeon HD 2600, Radeon HD 3750, Radeon HD 3780 X2, Geforce 8800 GT, Geforce 9800 GTX and Geforce 9600 GT. With these cards your hack could support up to 4096x4096 resolution on 2x2 supersampling (enough for all consumer grade displays).

 

[gl33k]

i agree with 2008 IQ is unacceptable. definitly.
having no FSAA in 2008 commercial game is a SHAME. whatever you can say , it's ALL about MY wish , and MY choice.

i don't care if developpers prefer nice deferred engine , because , I , for one, can't play these ugliest thing on earth , of FSAAless game.
so make us FSAA compliant 3D engine .

/thread.

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

whatever you can say , it's ALL about MY wish , and MY choice.

Yep. Your choice is not to buy the game I've chosen not to buy games based on lots of different poor graphics choices/realities. In the end it is your choice - vote with your wallet!

But man, you must be pretty unhappy with almost every 3D console game ever

 

[digitalwanderer]

Yup, that's why I never play any.

AA4life baby.

 

[karlotta]

well its about the lighting model... HDR... shinny... OH an consoles...
Deferred lighting is our AA bain..
NO AA. BAH!

AA > Light

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

AA > Light

Alright just for you, analytic, INFINITE AA:

float4 psMain() : SV_Target
{
return float4(0, 0, 0, 1);
}

There you go... replace all your game shaders with that and enjoy an alias-free experience

The point is that it's pretty easy to anti-alias simple functions. As functions become more complicated, it becomes more expensive. It still works though if one has the smarts/FLOPS to burn though For instance, I believe Killzone 2 uses fully deferred rendering but just evaluates all of the subsamples with no cleverness (effectively SSAA).

The real irony is that deferred rendering gives you more control over the scheduling and execution frequencies of these sorts of functions and thus more control over implementing efficient and high-quality AA. So again, stop trashing techniques that you're probably don't really understand... things will get better in the next few years. No offense intended, but believe the people who do this for a job

 

[karlotta]

"things will get better in the next few years"

Yeah... until then jaggy crawly nice lighting. Or fixed with the blur smear. Dont implement something that looks like ass just for s a sell point. Oh but you guys in the know have it under control... NOT! the "suits" have you guys under control,, but we all fight the good fight, 60$ jaggy games with flaky light/ shadow worlds on a rail...
AA > Light for a good game experience, just ask Digi.

I like the Light/ Defered world lighting, just not at the loss of AA right now..

 

[2008 IQ is unacceptable]

"things will get better in the next few years"

Yeah... until then jaggy crawly nice lighting. Or fixed with the blur smear. Dont implement something that looks like ass just for s a sell point. Oh but you guys in the know have it under control... NOT! the "suits" have you guys under control,, but we all fight the good fight, 60$ jaggy games with flaky light/ shadow worlds on a rail...
AA > Light for a good game experience, just ask Digi.

I like the Light/ Defered world lighting, just not at the loss of AA right now..

Agreed 100%; deferred rendering/shading whatever the hell shouldn't have been used until they had it working perfectly with any aa mode one could possibly want.

 

[Rayne]

Agreed 100%; deferred rendering/shading whatever the hell shouldn't have been used until they had it working perfectly with any aa mode one could possibly want.

Also, when you buy a 600 Euros gfx card, you want to enjoy the maximum IQ & speed.

Deferred shading is one step forward, but the lack of AA is several steps backwards.