Most realistic shooting games*

[lesner87]

Mod : Thread spawned from the Far Cry 2 thread.

i personally think that Ubisoft`s aim for making this game more and more realistic has been taken VERY negatively.
There were actually some people on other boards claiming that the soldiers dont shock or fly when shot.I tried explaining to them that even in real life they dont fly 6 feet away,its just hollywood movies and games.But they took it in a negative way....
If you talk about realism Far Cry 2 is simply amazing.

 

[rusty]

I'm not so sure...

I've never seen anyone in real life pull themselves up off the floor after taking a few 5.56mm rounds to the chest and keep on fighting with the energy of a rabbit on crack.

Rounds cooking off in real life aren't deadly (re: when an ammo crate catches fire for example in far cry 2). Don't get me wrong it's cool and all but not realistic.

Cars don't really blow up when you shoot them. (unless you happen to be shooting them with an RPG of course)

You can't shoot through even thin wooden walls/tin walls (not that I've noticed anyway). EDIT - I am referring to the game here for clarity! ie you should be able to shoot through such things, but cannot.

Guns, even dirty ones (especially AK's) do not jam that frikkin often.

A syringe that can heal all wounds with a simple injection....

At night time the enemy are ridiculously blind (you can sit on a boat sniping them and they won't have a clue where you are, even though it's not that dark under the moon and stars, and you are sat on a big damn boat. Conversely, during the day some are ridiculously observant.

So it still suffers from typical video game "flaws" as regards realism in my opinion.

But, it does do well in other respects as you mentioned. It's also so refreshing to see a game in which a shotgun is not totally useless at anything beyond "poking" range. Grenades are also gloriously deadly in a way that few other games really exploit.

 

[lesner87]

I'm not so sure...

I've never seen anyone in real life pull themselves up off the floor after taking a few 5.56mm rounds to the chest and keep on fighting with the energy of a rabbit on crack.

Rounds cooking off in real life aren't deadly (re: when an ammo crate catches fire for example in far cry 2). Don't get me wrong it's cool and all but not realistic.

Cars don't really blow up when you shoot them. (unless you happen to be shooting them with an RPG of course)

You can't shoot through even thin wooden walls/tin walls (not that I've noticed anyway).

Guns, even dirty ones (especially AK's) do not jam that frikkin often.

A syringe that can heal all wounds with a simple injection....

At night time the enemy are ridiculously blind (you can sit on a boat sniping them and they won't have a clue where you are, even though it's not that dark under the moon and stars, and you are sat on a big damn boat. Conversely, during the day some are ridiculously observant.

So it still suffers from typical video game "flaws" as regards realism in my opinion.

But, it does do well in other respects as you mentioned. It's also so refreshing to see a game in which a shotgun is not totally useless at anything beyond "poking" range. Grenades are also gloriously deadly in a way that few other games really exploit.

Some of the flaws you wrote are actually very real.....

As said bullets dont effect that often...in real life if it hits a stomach or misses the main organs which are required to function (heart and brain) than a person can stand and fight upto the next 10 mins or so....he barely feels anything..
Do you even know that how long are proper gun fights ? They are for hours ATLEAST some times even stretch to 12 hours or so....

There was an opperation here near my place in waziristan by pak army in a valley full of militants....and guess what happened..a single bomb triggered all the aummination of the militants resulting in killing them...the army went in after the aummination stopped exploding and almost everyone was either dead or hurt badly..

Brother LMG rounds even go through walls ...whats thin wood infront of them ? Hell i shoot ak rounds all the time through metals pools,thin walls,wooden planks,sand bag dummies...etc..etc....

I havent noticed that how often it jams in Far Cry 2...but AK is the best gun in the world...shoots if filled with water,shoots if filled with sand and even use flawed rounds barely gets jamed....My frend hes a captain from pak army fought against militants in somewhere near malakand areas for 12 HOURS continously behind a cover with 3 other men and his new AKs barrel blew(even with good company rounds)...Maybe they cant create life like fights in FC2 so they make them blow often..but do realize other guns like i have a pistol with me dont noe the name in english srry...it uses 5.8mm rounds and is made by china...it literaly gets jammed after 2mags...

Thats all i have to say....according to my point of view its certainly one the most realistic fps i have ever played.....and it has many other realistic things aswell...

 

[rusty]

Some of the flaws you wrote are actually very real.....

As said bullets dont effect that often...in real life if it hits a stomach or misses the main organs which are required to function (heart and brain) than a person can stand and fight upto the next 10 mins or so....he barely feels anything..

yeah, but not after several rounds to the chest. The very nature of the 5.56 is to wound rather than kill (it takes more soldiers out of the fight to care for a wounded soldier than a dead one) but several shots to the chest, still debilitating. The chest is full of lovely things like lungs, liver, heart etc, it's pretty difficult to miss something major.

It's not a major gripe or anything, I'm just saying it's not an ultra-realistic thing. I've played very few computer games where bullets do as much damage as they should.

There was an opperation here near my place in waziristan by pak army in a valley full of militants....and guess what happened..a single bomb triggered all the aummination of the militants resulting in killing them...the army went in after the aummination stopped exploding and almost everyone was either dead or hurt badly..

then my guess is the ammo dump included much more than just rifle rounds. More like grenades and rpg's and the like.

A box of bullets just isn't that deadly cooking off. All the energy from the explosion goes outwards rather than being tightly funneled through a chamber and barrel, and the brass casing shoots backwards further taking energy away from propelling the round. I think Mythbusters even did an episode on this and concluded that even a 50 cal round cooking off would at most leave you with a small cut.

Brother LMG rounds even go through walls ...whats thin wood infront of them ? Hell i shoot ak rounds all the time through metals pools,thin walls,wooden planks,sand bag dummies...etc..etc....

errr.... I know. lol. I meant in the game you can't shoot through wooden walls or even thin tin walls (not that I have noticed anyway). In real life everything is soft cover, especially if you're being shot at with a 50 cal!

I havent noticed that how often it jams in Far Cry 2...but AK is the best gun in the world...shoots if filled with water,shoots if filled with sand and even use flawed rounds barely gets jamed....My frend hes a captain from pak army fought against militants in somewhere near malakand areas for 12 HOURS continously behind a cover with 3 other men and his new AKs barrel blew(even with good company rounds)...Maybe they cant create life like fights in FC2 so they make them blow often..but do realize other guns like i have a pistol with me dont noe the name in english srry...it uses 5.8mm rounds and is made by china...it literaly gets jammed after 2mags...

What you say about the AK is kind of my point. Even if dirty and abused it shouldn't jam as often as it does in the game. The british L85A1 was notorious for jamming, especially in desert conditions, until it got the H&K upgrade - but even with that I rarely experienced a jam. If you pick up a rebel's gun in far cry it seems you'll get a jam within several mags time. I'm just saying that even crappy guns can go several hundred rounds without a jam... with the exception of your high quality chinese pistol it seems! it's a cool enough gameplay mechanic but just a tad overplayed imo... and given the game spans many, many days and many many firefights i don't see the need to accelerate the jamming process. You may well be right as to why they did though. If you keep to new guns, pick up replacements whenever you are near an arms dealer, then it doesn't bother you as much so again - not a major gripe.

Thats all i have to say....according to my point of view its certainly one the most realistic fps i have ever played.....and it has many other realistic things aswell...

You ever played operation flashpoint? That was ultimate realism (well, back in the day at least) - even to the detail where bullets travelled faster than sound, the bullets dropped with range so none of this aiming level nonsense, even wind had an effect iirc. Sniping in that game was HARD!!! you had to use the mildot range finder to estimate the range then aim up the corresponding distance to compensate for drop. Then you had to take into account flight time for the bullet and aim where the guy was going to be by the time the bullet got there.

THAT is realistic.

Far cry is an awesome game, and it's certainly got some damn good aspects of realism to it... I certainly wouldn't say it's the most realistic game I've ever played though.

 

[rounin]

Just to put things in perspective, what are you basing your perception of realism on rusty (ie. what are your credentials)?
It sounds to me like lesner87 lives in a warzone, knows people who use a lot of firearms, and has access to some of these weapons (ie. AK, has a pistol, a cheap one, the ones of interest)

 

[Laa-Yosh]

You can't shoot through even thin wooden walls/tin walls (not that I've noticed anyway).

AK47 is actually known to shoot through complete tree branches. Some high rank soldiers in the old regime here used to hunt wild boar in the woods with AKs and it's lethal even after going through 1-2 feet of wood...

 

[rusty]

laa-yosh - see my response above. I was saying that in the game (360 version at least) you don't seem to be able to shoot through much if anything.... I didn't make that clear - i can see how it was read the wrong way. Indeed a 7.62 will go through most things and still kill you.

rounin - combat wise I admit nothing, other than having talked with many serving soldiers through the years. Gun wise and combat theory/training, quite a lot - I was in the Cadet Core for 3 years, and also competed on the rifle team on everything from .22 rim fire to big bore. As for the jamming side of things I must have fired a couple thousand of rounds through one of the most notoriously unreliable guns, the l85 A1... through all of that I got a jam maybe two or three times I think?

I also did a relatively good (i think anyway lol) project on the physics of bullet flight, and impact effect as part of one of my physics modules at university a few years ago.

If you read my penultimate post I explain my reasons more clearly. I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just stating things as I see them... and I don't see far cry as the pinnacle of combat simulation! It is however a fun game and more realistic than the average shooter, I agree.


edit - out of interest, I knew i remembered mytbusters doing something on the bullet cooking off myth:

But why stop here? There are several accounts of bullets and other objects being thrown on campfires. So, Jamie modifies one of the shop robots to dump items by remote control, while Adam builds a “ballistics tepee” with more of their soundboard/plywood sandwich and a supporting metal frame. (Adam points out that the campfire would melt ballistics gel.)

Out at the Alameda County bomb disposal range, the guys build a campfire, set up their ballistics tepee, and load “Sparky’s” hopper with a mix of .22, .44, and .50 caliber rounds. They start to go off almost as soon as they go on the fire, but the exploding, like popcorn, goes on for a while. Once the fire is put out, they find that not all the rounds exploded; some were tossed out of the fire by other explosions before they got hot enough. The tepee shows some damage, but primarily from casings, not bullets. Next, “Sparky” carries some aerosol cans to the fire. They rupture and jet around the place, producing some very nice high-speed footage. Finally, Adam’s found accounts of beer kegs being thrown on a fire. A keg is mostly emptied, but it’s too big for “Sparky” to handle. Jamie and Adam don protective gear and put the keg in position. There’s no shrapnel from this explosion, but that’s purely from chance – they point out two pieces that almost came off, either of which was large enough to injure or kill.

Jamie and Adam sum up these tests:
Bullets on campfire – bad idea, would probably cause injury, but probably not kill
Aerosol cans on campfire – bad idea, would probably cause injury, but probably not kill.
Beer keg on campfire – very bad idea, has a good chance to kill someone ... and a waste of beer.

conclusion that a beer keg on a fire is more dangerous made me chuckle. who would have guessed it? turns out it was episode 84 Red "Rag To A Bull/ Hot Bullets" in case anyone wants to watch it.

 

[Tap In]

while I am enjoying Far Cry and have heard it gets much better later as the weapons improve and the story gets more involved, I agree that the inability (especially in multiplayer) to not shoot through walls, fences, wooden barricades etc is disappointing.

first cod4 made it a strategy and then BF:BC made it a reality with the destruction.

 

[NERO]

You want realism?

Petition devs to eliminate barrells. When I'm holding someone hostage I give a call to a local moving company to get them out of my lair.

 

[Mobius1aic]

Well for the sake of honorable mention in realistic sniping: Sniper Elite.

And for another honorable mention, STALKER for it's simple but still cool ballistics system which even involves bullet ricochet. BF2 also employs a simple ballistics system too for at least sniper rifles and perhaps mounted weapons, however it's bullet speed/velocity system is very well done, considering you absolutely have to lead moving targets.

 

[Jawed]

You ever played operation flashpoint?

I still love playing this. It has now come to:

http://virtualbattlespace.vbs2.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=64

Seemingly with some Armed Assault 2 tech:

http://www.arma2.com/

which is incoming :drool:

Jawed

 

[rusty]

I take back the one comment re injured soldiers - I shot a guy in far cry today and he got back up and started struggling away, almost falling over several times as he fled.

I've noticed that sort of thing more and more - so like I said, that particular gripe is removed! The rest still stand though lol.

Jawed - think I might find it and give it a go again. Can't wait for op flashpoint 2...

 

[Sxotty]

edit - out of interest, I knew i remembered mytbusters doing something on the bullet cooking off myth:



conclusion that a beer keg on a fire is more dangerous made me chuckle. who would have guessed it? turns out it was episode 84 Red "Rag To A Bull/ Hot Bullets" in case anyone wants to watch it.

That is an incredibly stupid way to simulate the danger of rounds cooking off.

Throw rounds in a fire and the bullet is likely to land downwards. Lead is heavy after all.

Put a cartridge on a cement floor facing up and heat the casing then see what happens.

If you have metal boxes full of rounds you once again have the issue as they will not be loose in coal, but actually pressed against something. I strongly disagree with the idea that it is not dangerous based on throwing some random cartridges into a campfire.

 

[Mize]

R6V2 has realistic shooting (and being shot).

 

[obonicus]

R6V2 has realistic shooting (and being shot).

Doesn't it have a regenerating health bar, albeit a short one? The R6s before Vegas were more realistic, I guess, since you had a very limited ability to absorb gunfire (essentially, you couldn't). The Swat 3, Swat 4 games were similar, though unlike Rainbow 6 there death wasn't final (whoops, I lost Ding? Reload).

Op Flashpoint was a pretty realistic game, inasmuch as it accurately represented how I'd do in an actual warzone (to steal a line from Yahtzee).

 

[lesner87]

Just to put things in perspective, what are you basing your perception of realism on rusty (ie. what are your credentials)?
It sounds to me like lesner87 lives in a warzone, knows people who use a lot of firearms, and has access to some of these weapons (ie. AK, has a pistol, a cheap one, the ones of interest)

Yes i live near tribal agencies...

 

[lesner87]

@Rusty
The points you have brought are good and yes some of them are flaws of the game...but to be honest its a FAR from crap game.....I will try to find operation falshpoint and play it thanx for the info...

 

[Cheezdoodles]

R6V2 has realistic shooting (and being shot).

The originial Rainbow Six titles from 10 years ago are more realistic than the crap being made by ubisoft.

R6, original GR, Swat, Flashpoint etc where fairly realistic titles, but nowadays they are few and far between. I think the only reasonably new title out today that i would call realistic is AA Armed assault (with the exception of aimbot ai).

The later versions of R6 are imo a disgrace to the original vision of the title.

R6:Vega (1 and 2) is terrible as far as realism goes. There is like a batallion of enemy terrorist soldiers (atleast like 1000 of them!?!!?!) the aiming system is terrible, regen health etc etc etc.

The Aiming system is completely screwed up, but allmost all games have screwed up aiming these days. This is because they combine accuracy with recoil. So SMG's are suddenly the most accurate guns in the game (because they have the least recoil), which is total bull crap.

Its also completely ridiculous that when aiming in ironsights you do not allways hit exactly where the ironsights points, aspecially at the small ranges in the game (like 100m straight path at the most). For some reason weapons also get LESS accurate if you put on scope's etc. Its actually better to zoom in with the scope, aim, then zoom out and shoot, than shooting while looking in the scope.


The bullets also have magnetism, meaning that bullets magically go towards the enemy if you aim in their general direction.

 

[obonicus]

R6:Vega (1 and 2) is terrible as far as realism goes. There is like a batallion of enemy terrorist soldiers (atleast like 1000 of them!?!!?!) the aiming system is terrible, regen health etc etc etc.

Not commenting, but Swat 3/4 had some of this. Rainbow 6 was actually pretty accurate with enemy placement (it had to be, since you had to plan out the strategy) but with Swat 3 there were missions where I swear you were fighting off a couple dozen enemies. Not complaining, mind you, since this + random placement is what made the game great.

The Aiming system is completely screwed up, but allmost all games have screwed up aiming these days. This is because they combine accuracy with recoil. So SMG's are suddenly the most accurate guns in the game (because they have the least recoil), which is total bull crap.

Its also completely ridiculous that when aiming in ironsights you do not allways hit exactly where the ironsights points, aspecially at the small ranges in the game (like 100m straight path at the most). For some reason weapons also get LESS accurate if you put on scope's etc. Its actually better to zoom in with the scope, aim, then zoom out and shoot, than shooting while looking in the scope.

On this note, I seem to remember that in Op Flashpoint, if you had good eyesight with the iron sights you could be far more deadly at longish range with the AK than with the sniper rifle. Sniper won out over extreme ranges, naturally.

Also, I seem to remember that, maybe to reflect that the spec ops guy was a badass (I suspect he was a Mary Sue), the silenced SMG had INSANE accuracy. Not just that, but I also remember that the spec ops guy was essentially a ninja; if it was nighttime and you were laying prone, even if it was in the middle of a field, the enemy could essentially step over you.

 

[rusty]

@Rusty
The points you have brought are good and yes some of them are flaws of the game...but to be honest its a FAR from crap game.....I will try to find operation falshpoint and play it thanx for the info...

You could say it's a Far Cry from being a crap game ... sorry. too easy, lol. But yeah, I'm loving it at the moment - I never said it was crap! You'll find the graphics absolutely appalling on Op Flashpoint these days (they weren't great even when it came out many years ago!) but if you can get past that you'll enjoy it no doubt. You must be able to pick up a copy for next to nothing these days.

I also remember that the spec ops guy was essentially a ninja; if it was nighttime and you were laying prone, even if it was in the middle of a field, the enemy could essentially step over you.

I've actually had that happen lol... We were out on a training exercise on the moors at night and someone literally came within a few inches of stepping on my arm. It's incredible just how invisible you can be in normal camo, at nght if you are perfectly still.