Water rendering and user interaction

The549

Regular
First of all, I'm a layman in the computer world compared to a lot of the coders and industry people here. So my question is about why we don't have any water effects that looks even mildly realistic - specifically when there is object interaction with it. I'm talking about bodies of water. There's a thin misty particle effect, or some color effects (whitening), but no waveform or anything even trying to be realistic.

If you disagree with me, then show me a screen or game. Really Everquest 2 had the only ripple effect that I know of. I haven't seen anything that comes even close relative to the graphics advancements in other areas.

What looks dumb in this screenshot? It looks great, until you look at the boat and flat watercolor type wake. Yuck.

http://obsidian-fire.net/cuban_legend/TripleC_OMGSHOT.jpg
 
Bioshock waves looked the best, B&W water surface the best, I don't like the cartoony look of the crystal clear water in Halo 3 and Far Cry, maybe my gripe is waveform complexity and particle count...
 
Hmm, Bioshock water isn't nearly as reactive as the water in Halo 3. I've splashed about extensively in both games :) and IMO Halo 3 water is way more advanced in terms of physics.
 
Hmm, Bioshock water isn't nearly as reactive as the water in Halo 3. I've splashed about extensively in both games :) and IMO Halo 3 water is way more advanced in terms of physics.

You have played Bioshock in DX10 mode, right?
 
Most games seem to be trying to make water look like a pond behaves.
Empire:Total War looks to have the most sea-like water I've seen.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38336.html?type=wmv
Thats a fulltime coder for a year or two worth of DX9
Uses their own inhouse physics engine for bouyancy calculation & damage/projectile calculations too. (cannon balls will bounce if they hit water at the right angle amongst other niceities)

Of course, there's always this piece of lies :LOL:
gfw031.jpg
 
You have played Bioshock in DX10 mode, right?

Yes, and in my opinion the ripples in Bioshock are child's play compared to what Halo 3 water can do. I'll try to find some better videos.

Well the only videos I can find are crappy YouTube ones. This blog does a good job summarizing my feelings on video game water. Basically it's not all about how it looks, but how it feels. IMO both Bioshock and Crysis have better _looking_ water than Halo 3... until you jump into it.

The only games I've ever played with water that acted anything close to how water is supposed to act are Halo 3 and the Baldur's Gate games on the original Xbox. According to the aforementioned blog post Kameo has good "feeling" water as well. This isn't to say that the ripple effects as seen in Crysis and Bioshock are crap; they're certainly a nice step up from the usual white texture splashes ala Source water.
 
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The water from the new Resistance 2 gameplay videos looks relatively interesting in terms of Insomniac advancing their engine. Perhaps a little to viscous, but by no means unimpressive. I'll have to find a link.
 
Crysis have better _looking_ water than Halo 3... until you jump into it.

Well that depends. Both are FPS's and so your not going to see much water reaction in either case unless your in a non-standard third person mode.

I agree that Halo 3 has more impressive surface water interactions but when you jump in the water in Crysis your more likely to go under the surface than see many surface ripples. And no game competes with Crysis underwater where its lead is far greater than its lead in surface water visuals.
 
What is up with the Flight Sim X 'lie'? I've seen that before as the DX10 version to compare.

Cool blog, it's basically what I was getting at. Also read a thread from 2005 on coding water.

I actually have Halo 3 and Bioshock yet haven't played either of them. So I'll give them a try. I only bought the 360 for Forza 2, which again I love because (it's a car nerd game and not a f***ing bling game and) it has the "feel" of real physics, as most game-water does not.
 
What is up with the Flight Sim X 'lie'? I've seen that before as the DX10 version to compare.
The image was indeed advertised on countless sites as "DX10" while in reality (MS tried to tell people this, too) it was just artists impression of "what could be possible" rather than real render.
Then, MS of course got blamed for lying about FSX DX10 quality even though they never said it's DX10 screenshot, but that it's just artists impression
 
So my question is about why we don't have any water effects that looks even mildly realistic

Because nowadays what game developers are doing really is totally faking it. They're just adding shaders to the surface of the water (a la half life 2) to make it look ok or they fake "waves", actually kinda treating water as a moving solid surface of triangles... (what was that submarine game called again)

Aside from a physx title or two no one is even trying to do liquid particle physics required to simulate the whole body of water, and even the most advanced physics based liquid simulations are either not nearly realistic enough (too few particles that are too big) or not real time (too computationally intensive)

Wait 5 years or so and we might get close.
 
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i think more efforts will be assigned to fluid dynamics whenever a game design requires player interaction with fluids.
 
That looks very nice. I really like the setting for the game:
In the mid 21st Century, Thomas Malthus's 18th Century prophecy will finally be realised.

The Great Population Flood has brought the world to its knees. Cities and towns have become swamped as mass poverty spreads, and the rights of the individual are lost in a sea of desperation.

You are Kate Wilson, a Security Engineer onboard the Queen of the World - a stateless supership where the powerful and the wealthy live in exile from the chaos of the outside world, but united in their quest to save it.

For ten years this "City at Sea" has stood as a beacon for progress, prospering as the rest of world slowly drowns.

On the eve of the Queens massive anniversary celebrations, with a breakthrough announcement looming, the great vessel comes under attack.

Trapped behind enemy lines, Kate must fight her own demons as she becomes the last hope against an army of Neo-Malthusian terrorists, whose philosophy is simple: "Save the world, kill yourself".
 
Yes! That is something that I was hoping someone was working on a water system. Then hopefully it can be integrated into other engines.
 
Super Rub-a-Dub has cool water too, but it's kind of a different game from the rest here. ;)
 
Of course, there's always this piece of lies :LOL:
gfw031.jpg

Thrue but they could have done it. Looks like the Crysis water with FFT enabled except different color and reflection type. Crysis presented some impressive waves lines going into the shore to.... but its borked in final and doesnt show up right.
 
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