[PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4 *spoilers*

[vanquish]

No, I'm agreeing with Eurogamer's review based on what I've played of the game.

I assume most people give it 10 because they love the story, I can't stand silliness in a serious game, so it is impossible to give it such a high rating in my books.

I was also trying to assess whether Ostepop's comments were largely accurate, and from the demo they were. It certainly isn't a very good action game in normal gameplay (excluding on the rails and boss sequences).

And to the questions asked above:

1. there were no enemies on higher elevation, and I wasn't running, I was crouch walking, and no I didn't step on a bottle or something.
3. And you can't befriend the PMC's in the demo i think, at least I don't know how to.

With regards to production values, while the music , voice acting, cutscenes etc are great, the in game graphics are nothing exceptional (why do people keep making it out to be the best looking game of the year).

For example comparing the Middle East sections of COD4 to the demo, COD4 looks better. The inconsistency between the almost too excellent models and the less impressive environments is detrimental to the graphics.

 

[inefficient]

I assume most people give it 10 because they love the story, I can't stand silliness in a serious game, so it is impossible to give it such a high rating in my books.

Then the problem is you not the game or the people who do love it.

It certainly isn't a very good action game in normal gameplay (excluding on the rails and boss sequences).

How would you know? You have never played them.

Why do people keep making it out to be the best looking game of the year.

Why do people who have only played a demo of a game feel they have to post 15+ times in this thread trying to convince us they don't like MGS4. This contributes nothing.

 

[vanquish]

Then the problem is you not the game or the people who do love it.




How would you know? You have never played them.




Why do people who have only played a demo of a game feel they have to post 15+ times in this thread trying to convince us they don't like MGS4. This contributes nothing.

2. Thats what I meant, I can't judge the boss fights or the on rail sequences, so i'm judging the normal gameplay.
3. And I'm just showing that there are two sides to the discussion, and supporting Ostepop's experience of the game.

Being both Japanese and a MGS fan you may well not choose to see the flaws in the game, but that doesn't meant that they're not there.

 

[scificube]

2. Thats what I meant, I can't judge the boss fights or the on rail sequences, so i'm judging the normal gameplay.
3. And I'm just showing that there are two sides to the discussion, and supporting Ostepop's experience of the game.

Being both Japanese and a MGS fan you may well not choose to see the flaws in the game, but that doesn't meant that they're not there.

What does being Japanese have to do with it?

You are also generalizing all fans of MGS4 when you suggest they won't look at MGS4 with a critical eye...many MGS fans have scrutinized MGS4 like no other.

 

[vanquish]

What does being Japanese have to do with it?

You are also generalizing all fans of MGS4 when you suggest they won't look at MGS4 with a critical eye...many MGS fans have scrutinized MGS4 like no other.

Well, being Japanese makes it harder to criticize Japanese storytelling traditions and methods doesn't it?

And yes there are always going to be nitpicking fans, but theres many more zealots.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

You are also generalizing all fans of MGS4 when you suggest they won't look at MGS4 with a critical eye...many MGS fans have scrutinized MGS4 like no other.

Oh please. MGS4 fans are the biggest fanboys i see on forums. They treat hideo kojimas work like some people treat the Bible.

While some may look at MGS4 with a critical eye, most MGS fans only use superlatives when describing MGS4. Read through the MGS4 threads, this game apparently has best ever graphics, ai, gameplay, story, everything. And trying to dispute that leads to war. If i bring up some of my gripes with the game, im playing the game wrong or being a fanboy or something.

I dont think i have ever seen such much blind love for a video game before. Most people on this forum that are MGS4 fans thinks the game is perfect, perfect on all areas. Nothing could have been done better.

 

[scificube]

Oh please. MGS4 fans are the biggest fanboys i see on forums. They treat hideo kojimas work like some people treat the Bible.

While some may look at MGS4 with a critical eye, most MGS fans only use superlatives when describing MGS4. Read through the MGS4 threads, this game apparently has best ever graphics, ai, gameplay, story, everything. And trying to dispute that leads to war. If i bring up some of my gripes with the game, im playing the game wrong or being a fanboy or something.

I dont think i have ever seen such much blind love for a video game before. Most people on this forum that are MGS4 fans thinks the game is perfect, perfect on all areas. Nothing could have been done better.

Whether someone is a fan or not will not strengthen or weaken their case/criticisms/lauds of a game. Frankly whether you're a fan or not is neither here nor there UNLESS you wish to denigrate someone for being one or appear superior in knowledge or taste because of it.

Stop talking down to people for their tastes or distastes. It's uncalled for and you should stand on the merit in what you're saying not the persuasion of whom you're talking to.

You may not like it and that's you're prerogative but others do like MGS4 and do wish to give it praise for what it does for them. I see no reason to get upset about that or call people out for it -- as if its wrong for people to actually like the game to the level they do whether they "see" imperfection or not. It's not. It's just as acceptable to despise MGS4 with a passion.

 

[scificube]

Well, being Japanese makes it harder to criticize Japanese storytelling traditions and methods doesn't it?

No.

And yes there are always going to be nitpicking fans, but theres many more zealots.

Both nitpickers and zealots can be critical and genuinely love or hate MGS4. There is no reason to focus on "what" somebody is because it doesn't change the value of their words. If Steven Hawking said Batman was real and O.J. Simpson said for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction nothing changes about the validity of what they said based upon "what" or who they are.

 

[patsu]

Oh please. MGS4 fans are the biggest fanboys i see on forums. They treat hideo kojimas work like some people treat the Bible.

While some may look at MGS4 with a critical eye, most MGS fans only use superlatives when describing MGS4. Read through the MGS4 threads, this game apparently has best ever graphics, ai, gameplay, story, everything. And trying to dispute that leads to war. If i bring up some of my gripes with the game, im playing the game wrong or being a fanboy or something.

I dont think i have ever seen such much blind love for a video game before. Most people on this forum that are MGS4 fans thinks the game is perfect, perfect on all areas. Nothing could have been done better.

Perhaps... but I think you want to say "MGS4 fanboys are the biggest fanboys i see on forums.". Fanboys are fanboys but MGS4 fans can be pretty level headed.

I think vanquish's comments is off if he's only basing it on a demo. At best, he simply reviewed the demo, not the game. Even though his opinion happens to be similar to Eurogamers', as long as he has not experienced the full game himself, he won't have an accurate perspective of the game.

With regards to production values, while the music , voice acting, cutscenes etc are great, the in game graphics are nothing exceptional (why do people keep making it out to be the best looking game of the year).

It's subjective. Plus you only saw a demo, not the game.

For example comparing the Middle East sections of COD4 to the demo, COD4 looks better. The inconsistency between the almost too excellent models and the less impressive environments is detrimental to the graphics.

May be. There are a lot more than just the Middle East skirmish in MGS4. Many people seem to like/love MGS4 art too (Not just the technical stuff).

Well, being Japanese makes it harder to criticize Japanese storytelling traditions and methods doesn't it?

You're not talking to Japanese here. Many of us aren't.

And yes there are always going to be nitpicking fans, but theres many more zealots.

May be that just means more people like the game, and some like the game a lot ? That's a good thing right ?

Stop talking down to people for taste or distates. It's uncalled for and you should stand on the merit in what you're saying not the persuasion of whom you're talking to.

You may not like it and that's you're perogative but others do like MGS4 and do wish to give it praise for what it does for them. I see no reason to get upset about that or call people out for it -- as if its wrong for people to actually like the game to the level they do whether they "see" imperfection or not. It's not. It's just as acceptable to despise MGS4 with a passion.

That's true. No point in criticizing someone's taste.

If you have only played the demo, score the demo. Leave the game alone.

 

[obonicus]

No, I'm agreeing with Eurogamer's review based on what I've played of the game.

You can rate the demo, you can't rate the game. There's a lot more to the game than what's in the demo, so when you say you agree with Eurogamer's review of the whole game, you'll have to excuse people for saying you have no basis to make that statement.

 

[GuestLV]

this game apparently has best ever graphics....

certainly not.
MGS4 good game ,but not as good as previous parts

 

[deepbrown]

Oh please. MGS4 fans are the biggest fanboys i see on forums. They treat hideo kojimas work like some people treat the Bible.

While some may look at MGS4 with a critical eye, most MGS fans only use superlatives when describing MGS4. Read through the MGS4 threads, this game apparently has best ever graphics, ai, gameplay, story, everything. And trying to dispute that leads to war. If i bring up some of my gripes with the game, im playing the game wrong or being a fanboy or something.

I dont think i have ever seen such much blind love for a video game before. Most people on this forum that are MGS4 fans thinks the game is perfect, perfect on all areas. Nothing could have been done better.

Everyone meet Ostepop. Fanboys are fanboys Oste, no matter what the game.

Can a correct analysis be made of a game after only playing a demo? Or is it only because he agrees with your analysis that this is now a valid way to criticise a game?

And MGS4 does display some of the best graphics in a videogame - the microwave and final fight scenes both blew me away.

 

[djskribbles]

I do like the MGS games, but I'm not a big MGS fan (never was). I haven't even played all of them. But MGS4 is still one of the best games I've played.

 

[vanquish]

You can rate the demo, you can't rate the game. There's a lot more to the game than what's in the demo, so when you say you agree with Eurogamer's review of the whole game, you'll have to excuse people for saying you have no basis to make that statement.

I am not an idiot, I realise that you can't review a game based on the demo, you can however assess other peoples impressions of the game based on the demo portions. In this case I can certainly assess the general sneaking gameplay (which makes up the bulk of the game) can't I? (while I can't assess the boss fights/ on rail sequences etc). I have also watched numerous videos of gameplay. And I played the MGO demo as well.

Many fanboys criticised Ostepop for not playing the game right, and suggested his complaints of easy enemy AI would be rendered null when playing on harder difficulties. So I played the demo on the hardest difficulty, and guess what I found much of what he said regarding sneaking, gunplay and AI accurate, certainly more accurate than some of the dogmatic defending posted here by some who are slavishly in love with the series, and sound more and more like they are conducting some sort of inquisition.

The fact that publications such as Gamespot gave the best technical graphics of 2008 award to MGS4 over titles COD:WAW, GOW2, Resistance 2, Far Cry 2 and even Crysis, just shows you how much of a factor hype/spin is in this games success.

 

[scificube]

Or MGS4 could deserve such appreciation is the eyes of those other than yours -- including Gamespot.

You're entitled to your opinion as well as Ostepop as well as anyone else theirs.

Where people take issue with is your exclaiming they're "defending" something instead of speaking to their true admiration. It's also not quite right to refer to others as being dogmatic if you the same continue to argue your point beyond the en passe.

You'll not have your opinion respected so long as you continue to suggest those you converse with are devoid of objectivity being slaves to some hive mind love of the MGS series. You cannot receive what you refuse to extend to others.

I would ask we all return to talking about MGS4 now if that's at all possible.

 

[patsu]

I am not an idiot, I realise that you can't review a game based on the demo, you can however assess other peoples impressions of the game based on the demo portions. In this case I can certainly assess the general sneaking gameplay (which makes up the bulk of the game) can't I? (while I can't assess the boss fights/ on rail sequences etc). I have also watched numerous videos of gameplay. And I played the MGO demo as well.

No you can't. The demo is a very limited version of the game. I love the variety of gameplay and presentation formats in MGS4 (The sneaking gameplay is only part of the experience). There is no way for you to assess how much weight/enjoyment others attributed to the parts you cut out (and have not played). There is also no way for you to internalize the game by watching video.

Many fanboys criticised Ostepop for not playing the game right, and suggested his complaints of easy enemy AI would be rendered null when playing on harder difficulties. So I played the demo on the hardest difficulty, and guess what I found much of what he said regarding sneaking, gunplay and AI accurate, certainly more accurate than some of the dogmatic defending posted here by some who are slavishly in love with the series, and sound more and more like they are conducting some sort of inquisition.

That's your opinion (of the demo). Nothing more and nothing less, same with everyone else. Doesn't mean others are wrong. They can have different opinion from you.

The fact that publications such as Gamespot gave the best technical graphics of 2008 award to MGS4 over titles COD:WAW, GOW2, Resistance 2, Far Cry 2 and even Crysis, just shows you how much of a factor hype/spin is in this games success.

Then you should question gamespot instead of over-generalizing.

In my view, MGS4 is one of the prettiest games I have seen (including KZ2). The fist fight with Ocelot, the bike jump in Act 3, and the cementery scene were absolutely stunning in my eyes. If you want to debate technical graphics, perhaps you want to contribute to the threads here:
* http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=51058
* http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=49828

 

[2real4tv]

Fanboys has got to be one the most misused/overused words in gaming history. It's 2009 can we move on from that.

 

[Jesus2006]

In my view, MGS4 is one of the prettiest games I have seen (including KZ2). The fist fight with Ocelot, the bike jump in Act 3, and the cementery scene were absolutely stunning in my eyes. If you want to debate technical graphics, perhaps you want to contribute to the threads here:
* http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=51058
* http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=49828

I think it's the overall presentation that counts here most, not just resolution + fps + textures.

It's one perfect combination of everything and that's something most other games are lacking.

 

[vanquish]

I think it's the overall presentation that counts here most, not just resolution + fps + textures.

It's one perfect combination of everything and that's something most other games are lacking.

What is so good about the textures? they're the weak point of the games graphics. And they're the reason that your 'overall presentation' argument falls flat, the game juxtaposes excellent character models with subpar textures, its jarring rather than a "perfect combination of everything" as you suggest.
"
The FPS also drops quite often during intense scenarios, and it only runs at 30 fps not 60, so I don't see why it should be singled out for praise.

And the resolution isn't 720p and it doesn't use proper antialiasing, unlike Uncharted.

If the in game graphics were as stellar as all the hype suggested I would have bought the game, just as a PS3 showcase.

 

[Neb]

I am not an idiot, I realise that you can't review a game based on the demo, you can however assess other peoples impressions of the game based on the demo portions. In this case I can certainly assess the general sneaking gameplay (which makes up the bulk of the game) can't I? (while I can't assess the boss fights/ on rail sequences etc). I have also watched numerous videos of gameplay. And I played the MGO demo as well.

Many fanboys criticised Ostepop for not playing the game right, and suggested his complaints of easy enemy AI would be rendered null when playing on harder difficulties. So I played the demo on the hardest difficulty, and guess what I found much of what he said regarding sneaking, gunplay and AI accurate, certainly more accurate than some of the dogmatic defending posted here by some who are slavishly in love with the series, and sound more and more like they are conducting some sort of inquisition.

The fact that publications such as Gamespot gave the best technical graphics of 2008 award to MGS4 over titles COD:WAW, GOW2, Resistance 2, Far Cry 2 and even Crysis, just shows you how much of a factor hype/spin is in this games success.

My impression is that Japanese games seems to be handled in a different way than western games. People seem to be far more forgiving for subpar [...] vs western games. maybe it is becouse they aim for a more emotional story-line (games or movies). Though for someone neutral that dont romantise a certain region 'art' style would of course see the games differently and more factious or 'as is'.