[PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4 *spoilers*

[Phil]

I have to say, the game (on my display) runs at 60fps most of the time - and only dips to 30fps in some scenes in FPS mode and in some other scenes to lower than 30 when there's really A LOT going on at the same time. A good way to test the framerate is to rotate the camera angle and see how smooth (or not) it moves (right analog stick). It's easy to tell when it runs at 60 and when it doesn't. It's not stable constant 60 as I would have hoped, but pretty good none the less and I'm glad it's in, even if not all the time.

Guess the problem is that there are so many ways to play MGS4 - if you play it as a shooter, you're bound to have more framerate fluctuations (lots of action) going on. If you play it more like a stealth game, you can keep it up at 60 fps most of the time.

 

[Crayon]

Well Renegade, I'd say that if there was ever a place to nit-pick graphics this is it. That's why I read b3d. =)

I'm torn looking at the graphics because the back of my brain has the technical details sort of floating around and not adding up to anything groundbreaking, yet before my eyes I'm seeing what appears to be some seriously impressive work.

I think that the thouroghness of this game really allows the artwork to bleed into the technical side. For example: If I need to create a texture for snake's shoulder, and I have alot of time/money to do it I can make a damn good texture for that shoulder. By taking into account the distances it will be viewed at, the res it will be renered at, the amount it will be re-scaled at, and the effects of our aa implementation... if I really wanted to get crazy I could pour a lot of work into this tiny little detail. I would make several shoulder textures with this data and compare them at different viewing angles and distances to select the one that yeilds the best viewing in all these situations.


That's just an example I made up, but there's a shitload of work in this game and I'm sure that there are alot of good looking games that would look great if they had the same ammount of work (and talent I almost forgot) poured into the art assets and direction.

Looking at the game and jeez the cutscenes.... I can't with my own eye and knolwedge resolve where the technology leaves off and the artwork begins. It kindof blurs the line. Vagrant Story on PS1 does this. So does every Gran Turismo. Come to think... so did MGS1.... Either way, MGS4 ups the ante.

 

[_phil_]

Lets just say that lots of engines can and its done in several games, wheter power lines, ropes or fences.

that isn't really an answer you know...Idon't think "a lot " of engines has shadows good enough to catch well so little occlusion.(Gears certainly not ,AC : same thing.even Uncharted ,i'm not sure despite being one of the best one shadow wise)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I take it, this is your first MGS
I'm not sure about the technical aspect of the game, and the aesthetical aspect is very subjective, but the controls and the melodrama are trademarks of the series!

Oh, I know, and appreciate that. It is a style thing in a way, although almost, IMO, like people liking badly made movies, enjoying them for being rubbish rather than getting sucked into the emotion. The monologues are something to laugh at rather than empathise with. It's hard to tell whether the creators were being serious and not very successful, or tongue-in-cheek, as they are with much of the series' content!

Their style is so unique that makes them equivalent with those movies from that director you either love or hate. There are no compromises in them, and that is something that this industry is in dire need of.

I agree with that and it is important. We don't want generic cookie-cutter creations. People have different tastes. The creators should be targeting their audience, not trying to appeal to everyone with some safe, generic twaddle. Kojima has succeeded (VGChartz reckons 1.3 million sales on Day 1. Maybe not that many, but it's plenty enough) because he has provided the people who like his style with stuff they like! Likewise Snoblind Studios action RPG romps are a huge success with those who really 'get it', even if plenty of folk don't see the appeal. The production values of this title are certainly landmark, and it does deserve a place in the echelons of gaming history, even if not in everyone's library.

 

[patsu]

DOn't think they expect you to do anything...if the controls weren't obvious (ie. the only one you need to know is R1 - that's been CQC throughout the game and X - that's been a roll dodge throughout the game) other moves are simply extras tha, if you're lucky enough to find them, adds extra depth.

There are extra keys ? I beat Liquid using just X and R1 (

Spoiler

... plus the triangle key for QTE events

). Took me 3 tries. I really like Liquid Ocelot in that stage. He was a fun enemy. No gimmicks, no hidden advantage, just raw kicks and punches

Spoiler

My favorite stage is the Rex vs Ray fight. I have been waiting for a game like this. Armor Core games pale compared to this mini-game.

 

[Neb]

that isn't really an answer you know...

It is to avoid taking this thread to OT grounds, you should understand that and should already have seen examples regarding other games! :smile:

Nope ,sorry i still don't see any validity in your claim

Well lets leave it there then, you may stumble upon those engines and games if you do a search sometime on all platforms!

 

[_phil_]

It is to avoid taking this thread to OT grounds, you should understand that and should already have seen examples regarding other games! :smile:

Nope ,sorry i still don't see any validity in your claim

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Please drop that OT conversation. Take it to a separate thread if needs must.

 

[Cornsnake]

I'm finally finished. I got the Inchworm rank for being stealthy.

The boss battles are disappointing for the most part. Laughing Octopus and Raging Raven are good, the rest not so much. Crying Wolf and Metal Gear Ray are to easy, both only hit me once. Vamp is annoying, Screaming Mantis is confusing and Liquid is the worst. That battle depends on one thing, luck. Everything you try may work a few times, but other times doing the same thing has no effect. Even if you defend very well, it will just resort to automatically hitting you as soon as you let your guard down. He has more range and speed when ever he needs it. But in the end you'll get lucky and you beat him.

Playing through all the big set pieces is a lot of fun, but find it low on actual stealth. MGS 3 was better in that respect. Overall its a great game, but it still has it fare share of flaws.

 

[deepbrown]

There are extra keys ? I beat Liquid using just X and R1 (

Spoiler

... plus the triangle key for QTE events

). Took me 3 tries. I really like Liquid Ocelot in that stage. He was a fun enemy. No gimmicks, no hidden advantage, just raw kicks and punches

Spoiler

My favorite stage is the Rex vs Ray fight. I have been waiting for a game like this. Armor Core games pale compared to this mini-game.

Boss fight, not mini game...that was epic wasn't it...even the walk up towards the fight was epic.

Tip: When Liquid grabs you in latter stages of the punch out...don't move...he'll kiss your neck. Bless.

 

[deepbrown]

I'm finally finished. I got the Inchworm rank for being stealthy.

The boss battles are disappointing for the most part. Laughing Octopus and Raging Raven are good, the rest not so much. Crying Wolf and Metal Gear Ray are to easy, both only hit me once. Vamp is annoying, Screaming Mantis is confusing and Liquid is the worst. That battle depends on one thing, luck. Everything you try may work a few times, but other times doing the same thing has no effect. Even if you defend very well, it will just resort to automatically hitting you as soon as you let your guard down. He has more range and speed when ever he needs it. But in the end you'll get lucky and you beat him.

Playing through all the big set pieces is a lot of fun, but find it low on actual stealth. MGS 3 was better in that respect. Overall its a great game, but it still has it fare share of flaws.

Don't get that last bit...Liquids is the best boss fight in the game. The graphics are beyond belief. I beat him first time, not with luck but with timing and skill. I worked out what to do and when, just like any good fighter. On another note I found the Rex vs Ray fight a bit difficult, succeeding on my second try. What's clear is we're all good at different things.

My tip for more stealth gameplay is to go searching in Act 2...lots of little villages to save militia in (ie. holding up a guy who's pissing in a river, holding up a PMC guarding 5 militia...) And who else was impressed by the lighting in Act 2 getting lighter as the level went on...if you stick around just before Raiden contacts you, you can watch the sunrise

 

[patsu]

I'm finally finished. I got the Inchworm rank for being stealthy.

The boss battles are disappointing for the most part. Laughing Octopus and Raging Raven are good, the rest not so much. Crying Wolf and Metal Gear Ray are to easy, both only hit me once. Vamp is annoying, Screaming Mantis is confusing and Liquid is the worst. That battle depends on one thing, luck. Everything you try may work a few times, but other times doing the same thing has no effect. Even if you defend very well, it will just resort to automatically hitting you as soon as you let your guard down. He has more range and speed when ever he needs it. But in the end you'll get lucky and you beat him.

Playing through all the big set pieces is a lot of fun, but find it low on actual stealth. MGS 3 was better in that respect. Overall its a great game, but it still has it fare share of flaws.

Crying Wolf was easy if

Spoiler

you hid under the tank... for people like me

. Is she easy if you fight her in the open ? I was too afraid to try

I thought Vamp was the easiest one, especially with a powerful weapon.

Screaming Mantis was confusing but great fun though.

Spoiler

The confusion came from trying to discern which soldier was Meryl so that I don't hit her accidentally. Other than that, I just kept firing at her and then used the Mantis doll. I heard she will drop the Sorrow doll too, but how ?

Was Liquid totally luck-based ? At first I was annoyed because his attack was very powerful. I kept avoiding him, and only attack when he finished his charge.
Was able to inch out and beat him in the end.

Boss fight, not mini game...that was epic wasn't it...even the walk up towards the fight was epic.

At first I hid behind the building and only used the machine gun. Had to deal with overheating and Ray's attacks. After some fumbling,

Spoiler

I found its Trample capability accidentally... and then after some more mistakes, I accidentally switched to Rex's laser. So the fight was very interesting to say the least as I fought Ray in the open more and more. Towards the end, I was almost chasing after Ray's ass trying to stomp it to death. It was very funny.

I LOVE IT ! Ray's hi-pressure water attack was painful though.

Tip: When Liquid grabs you in latter stages of the punch out...don't move...he'll kiss your neck. Bless.

Ha ha... too scared to try anything funny/risky except to fight Liquid toe to toe.

 

[MJP]

Patsu...

Spoiler

Just keep shooting the Sorrow doll. I shot it a few times with the railgun and she dropped it. You should see some of the strings holding it breaking off as you shoot it more.

 

[deepbrown]

Crying Wolf was easy if

Spoiler

you hid under the tank... for people like me

. Is she easy if you fight her in the open ? I was too afraid to try

I thought Vamp was the easiest one, especially with a powerful weapon.

Screaming Mantis was confusing but great fun though.

Spoiler

The confusion came from trying to discern which soldier was Meryl so that I don't hit her accidentally. Other than that, I just kept firing at her and then used the Mantis doll. I heard she will drop the Sorrow doll too, but how ?

Was Liquid totally luck-based ? At first I was annoyed because his attack was very powerful. I kept avoiding him, and only attack when he finished his charge.
Was able to inch out and beat him in the end.




At first I hid behind the building and only used the machine gun. Had to deal with overheating and Ray's attack. After some fumbling,

Spoiler

I found its Trample capability accidentally... and then after some more mistakes, I accidentally switched to Rex's laser. So the fight was very interesting to say the least as I fought Ray in the open more and more. Towards the end, I was almost chasing after Ray's ass trying to stomp it to death. It was very funny.

I LOVE IT ! Ray's hi-pressure water attack was painful though.



Ha ha... too scared to try anything funny/risky except to fight Liquid toe to toe.

I didn't know what to do to Vamp Spent ages trying to work out what to do... lol

 

[Phil]

For people having trouble with Vamp, here's something I found out:

Spoiler

Injecting the sirenge (sp?) doesn't work at the beginning - you first have to kill him once and let him re-generate. This was on solid normal, maybe it's different on a different difficulty.

Cheers Phil

 

[Cornsnake]

Don't get that last bit...Liquids is the best boss fight in the game. The graphics are beyond belief. I beat him first time, not with luck but with timing and skill. I worked out what to do and when, just like any good fighter. On another note I found the Rex vs Ray fight a bit difficult, succeeding on my second try. What's clear is we're all good at different things.

About the Liquid battle.

Spoiler

I attempted several different approaches. Knocking him down and starting the next combo to time it precisely so that Snake kicks him down again as soon as he gets up. And cornering him at the edge. Both seemed very good approaches, but when I did again after I died they had almost no effect on him. That guide I checked was nothing more than a move list, it didn't offer a good way to beat him, probably because there is none. When I finally did it, it wasn't because I did anything special. I was just pushing buttons at random. The whole fight is basically an interactive cutscene designed to show the relationship between the characters, so the actual gameplay was rigged for this purpose. If the player was allowed to beat him on his own then there would have been a change that Liquid's and Ocelot's personality wouldn't shine through during the fight.

About the Metal Gear Ray battle.

Spoiler

I hit him first with the small missiles which would knock him down and then shoot with either the gattling gun or the laser. Repeat until he breaks down. Outside of the fact he down easy on me, this was a very spectacular battle. He just didn't live up to being an anti-Metal Gear.

About the Crying Wolf battle.

Spoiler

I hid under the tank immediately. With all the Froggs running around I would have been spotted and I would probably have had to kill them. Which go's against my desire the be stealthy. I did accidentally kill one who walked in front of my sniper rifle. And I was expecting Wolf to knock over the tank like she does when they are first introduced. Which never happened.

About the Screaming Mantis battle.

Spoiler

The thing liked the most about boss fight in previous MGS's was the fact that you could try lot of different things that effect the battle and allowed for more than one way to defeat them. This battle seemed the same but is actually the opposite. There are lot of things to try, but nothing works accept what you have to do. Using CQC on the soldier's and Meryl was unnecessarily difficult. You can spend minutes running in to them so that they'll grab on to you, but they prefer to shoot or stab you. I haven't used the dolls yet accept for that one time. The Mantis and Sorrow dolls go down the same way, and both have the same description. Allowing you to control minds.

About the vamp battle.

Spoiler

Very boring fight. The stun grenades also bring him down quickly by decreasing his stress bar. You can even take down the BB squad with one shot during the second part of the fight.

This simultaneous worldwide release is great. I can share my thoughts and reading other people's thoughts on the game while playing. Instead of reading about it long before the game is released in Europe and only end up confirming what others already have said. A worldwide release add's a little community aspect to the game.

I never typed this much on my PS3.

 

[Jack_Tripper]

About the Liquid battle.

Spoiler

I attempted several different approaches. Knocking him down and starting the next combo to time it precisely so that Snake kicks him down again as soon as he gets up. And cornering him at the edge. Both seemed very good approaches, but when I did again after I died they had almost no effect on him. That guide I checked was nothing more than a move list, it didn't offer a good way to beat him, probably because there is none. When I finally did it, it wasn't because I did anything special. I was just pushing buttons at random. The whole fight is basically an interactive cutscene designed to show the relationship between the characters, so the actual gameplay was rigged for this purpose. If the player was allowed to beat him on his own then there would have been a change that Liquid's and Ocelot's personality wouldn't shine through during the fight.

Spoiler

You're not doing something right - I managed this whole fight (on BigBoss Hard) without taking one hit. Admitidly, the first time through (even on normal) I took some damage, but I wasn't taking into account that I wouldn't always be punching and kicking - sometimes, you have to time your CQC move quickly enough when he punches after getting up.

Don't know if you noticed, but I've found six different animations for the CQC moves relative to where you're standing (or downed) when these little cutscenes take over. Something else, once you get used to the rythm of the fight - you don't have to wait for on screen controlls anymore. For example - one of the six CQC scenes is you downing Liquid and punching him in the face - it'll prompt you to press (R1 I think) when your supposed to be punching him - but you can time it correctly where as soon as one punch ends, you can bring another down (timed so tightly that the "Press R1" message doesn't even have a chance to come up

There's, I think, one CQC reversal for when you get knocked down - but again, it's a timing thing. This little section of the game plays more like a DOA R/P/S punch and reversal session than a toe to toe fight - but the sheer amount of detail and variety offered (for what's supposed to be a minute of gameplay, is pretty remarkable

About the Metal Gear Ray battle.

Spoiler

I hit him first with the small missiles which would knock him down and then shoot with either the gattling gun or the laser. Repeat until he breaks down. Outside of the fact he down easy on me, this was a very spectacular battle. He just didn't live up to being an anti-Metal Gear.

Spoiler

Ya - it was a pretty fight, but probably the weakest moment in the game to me (which doesn't mean it was disappointing, but I guess I was just expecting it to be more involved. Very pretty in it's inception though - In BigBoss Hard mode, I managed to get killed and thrown out of Rex - Ray then comes over and stomps on you - was freaking hysterical!

About the Crying Wolf battle.

Spoiler

I hid under the tank immediately. With all the Froggs running around I would have been spotted and I would probably have had to kill them. Which go's against my desire the be stealthy. I did accidentally kill one who walked in front of my sniper rifle. And I was expecting Wolf to knock over the tank like she does when they are first introduced. Which never happened.

Spoiler

Ahh - here's the beauty of this game - I never though about hiding in the tanker - I ended up clearing out one of the towers and taking out Wolf with a Sniper Rifle from above - which was mad difficult as she kept using her rail gun to take out my cover (and the floor) in the tower where I was standing - an epic battle

About the Screaming Mantis battle.

Spoiler

The thing liked the most about boss fight in previous MGS's was the fact that you could try lot of different things that effect the battle and allowed for more than one way to defeat them. This battle seemed the same but is actually the opposite. There are lot of things to try, but nothing works accept what you have to do. Using CQC on the soldier's and Meryl was unnecessarily difficult. You can spend minutes running in to them so that they'll grab on to you, but they prefer to shoot or stab you. I haven't used the dolls yet accept for that one time. The Mantis and Sorrow dolls go down the same way, and both have the same description. Allowing you to control minds.

Spoiler

I dunno - this fight felt out of place to me for the reasons you pointed out above - there was CLEARLY only one way to complete this fight - and unlike the others, multiple approaches just didn't work. Thought it was a nice touch to have you start off "on the starting" and have to get out using the cyringe - was the dead giveaway to what to do to Meryl though - kinda wished they'd make you work for that a little more.

I'm not sure what you're saying about CQC being more difficult her than in the rest of the game - but I'll grant you that CQC is the experts approach to combat in this game - and it's mastery does take a while (even for those of us who cut our teeth on MgS3! I'm interested in the difference between the two dolls though - there's got to be a reason that there's two. By the way - Rail Gun is essential on this fight - the "zombies" are paper thin - when she's using them to sheild the dolls - this will go right through them!

About the vamp battle.

Spoiler

Very boring fight. The stun grenades also bring him down quickly by decreasing his stress bar. You can even take down the BB squad with one shot during the second part of the fight.

Spoiler

Ya, this was an easy fight - but I hated vamp - so I must have gone through 10k Drebin points in ammo alone just punishing him over and over again! What do you mean about taking out the BB squad during the fight though - maybe I just didn't notice them there?

 

[patsu]

About the Liquid battle.

Spoiler

I attempted several different approaches. Knocking him down and starting the next combo to time it precisely so that Snake kicks him down again as soon as he gets up. And cornering him at the edge. Both seemed very good approaches, but when I did again after I died they had almost no effect on him. That guide I checked was nothing more than a move list, it didn't offer a good way to beat him, probably because there is none. When I finally did it, it wasn't because I did anything special. I was just pushing buttons at random. The whole fight is basically an interactive cutscene designed to show the relationship between the characters, so the actual gameplay was rigged for this purpose. If the player was allowed to beat him on his own then there would have been a change that Liquid's and Ocelot's personality wouldn't shine through during the fight.

Spoiler

You should be able to hit Liquid even with simple combos. Sometimes the first 2-3 hits will not affect Liquid because he blocks. The context sensitive QTEs (depending on where you stand) are gratifying ^_^

About the Metal Gear Ray battle.

Spoiler

I hit him first with the small missiles which would knock him down and then shoot with either the gattling gun or the laser. Repeat until he breaks down. Outside of the fact he down easy on me, this was a very spectacular battle. He just didn't live up to being an anti-Metal Gear.

Spoiler

Did you try Trample ? (Alternate between R1 and R2). Basically Rex gave Ray left and right kicks until it went down, and then ^ (triangle) for Rex to jump on top of Ray with both legs. It's way more fun that way... although slightly dangerous.

About the Crying Wolf battle.

Spoiler

I hid under the tank immediately. With all the Froggs running around I would have been spotted and I would probably have had to kill them. Which go's against my desire the be stealthy. I did accidentally kill one who walked in front of my sniper rifle. And I was expecting Wolf to knock over the tank like she does when they are first introduced. Which never happened.

I did the same but I am going to try other ways on my second playthrough now.

About the Screaming Mantis battle.

Spoiler

The thing liked the most about boss fight in previous MGS's was the fact that you could try lot of different things that effect the battle and allowed for more than one way to defeat them. This battle seemed the same but is actually the opposite. There are lot of things to try, but nothing works accept what you have to do. Using CQC on the soldier's and Meryl was unnecessarily difficult. You can spend minutes running in to them so that they'll grab on to you, but they prefer to shoot or stab you. I haven't used the dolls yet accept for that one time. The Mantis and Sorrow dolls go down the same way, and both have the same description. Allowing you to control minds.

Spoiler

I am trying to collect the Sorrow doll now that I have the Mantis doll. Yeah, there is only one way to do it.

About the vamp battle.

Spoiler

Very boring fight. The stun grenades also bring him down quickly by decreasing his stress bar. You can even take down the BB squad with one shot during the second part of the fight.

Spoiler

If you use M60 and fire at his head, Vamp will die in 1-2 seconds. Applying the syringe was a little tricky since it was the only time I used CQC during my first playthrough. I hate him too, so I was happy.

 

[Cornsnake]

Spoiler

Did you try Trample ? (Alternate between R1 and R2). Basically Rex gave Ray left and right kicks until it went down, and then ^ (triangle) for Rex to jump on top of Ray with both legs. It's way more fun that way... although slightly dangerous.

Spoiler

I did, but on the suicide gekko's. It took away most of my life, but the rest of that section was easy. During the Metal Gear Ray fight he was always running around so I couldn't kick him. I'll probably try that on my second play through.

 

[MJP]

Jack_Tripper:

Spoiler

I think the difference between the dolls is that the Mantis doll controls the living, while the Sorrow doll controls the dead. Haven't tried using them outside the boss battle though, so I don't know for sure.