[PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4 *spoilers*

[Jack_Tripper]

I'm usually kind of cynical about game graphics these days, it takes alot to impress me, and I have to say, the MGS cutscenes continue to impress me, not just from a directorial perspective, but also from plain ole texture detail. I mean, you can zoom and there are little details everywhere, right down to reading manufacturer labeling on people's clothes. There's hardly any aliasing, the DoF blur effects look perfect, if it wasn't for this zoom feature, I'd swear there was some pre-recorded bullshotting going on.

Sure, the cut scenes afford the opportunity to totally know what needs to be loaded texture wise, but none the less, each and every scene had to be meticulously optimized with respect to system resources. It's the pure labor of love that you can feel when playing this game. Polished, in every regard.

It is crazy detail - here's something to look at -

Spoiler

look at Naomi when you first meet her - up close (especially the neck) then after the first cutscene where she injects herself. After the injection (if you can get the right angle and zoom at her neck) - you'll see tiny little pin-prick holes on her neck whee she took the injection. Later on in the game, if you look at that same spot - she's got a scar. I know it seems silly, but this isn't somethign that's ever showcased as "important" but the detail is still there if you know where to look. And if you look closely, Snake's got the same thing after taking his first injection

Jack

 

[warcrow]

Last night I loaded up some of my old saves to refresh my memory of the little things for the Podcast. I took some notes and most of the stuff I noted cannot mention on there because I dont want to spoiler anything for anyone--but I can chat about it here with you guys!

Even thought the topic says "SPOILERS!", I'll tag this just incase. :smile:

Spoiler

Random thoughts in random order:
- In Act 2 (tailing the ressistance menber) in the final area, I ran around for an hour trying to find him. I finally realized that he had changed clothes in the beginning of the mission (for some reason it didnt register to me that he changed clothes when he ducked behind the wall--I thought it was just another guard the he dodged) after I tranqed him 5 times because he was the only guard with a weapon.

- I really enjoyed discovering the Hollywood hand-print easter egg that the team left. Lying on it and soaking up the textures for camo was fun.

- Shaking the SixAxis during Rosemary's scenes to watch her boobs jiggle is awesome.

- I played the game on Normal and I felt that that difficulty was perfect. Not too ease and not too hard. I never got frustrated at the game for unfairness.

- In Act 2, when helping the militia, there are points where you can clear out the PMCs and it's a clear victory and everyone cheers. But at a certain point (section before the mansion) the PMCs are clearly respawning along with their attack helicopter--even after I cleared out the main area. I could be wrong here (someone please correct me if you experienced otherwise) but there is some invisible trigger that just stops everything. It was unlike the other sections where you were no respawns and it felt cheap and a little out of place.

- During the "Mission Breifs" I loved the view options (full screen cutescenes or multi-view) to be able to explore the airship with the MK II. Finidng items that were actual beneficial later on and seeing what Sunny was up to.

- I really feel that the game should have ended after the first credits roll. Everything after that felt like it was an unnecessary "twist". I really love the game and the ending (pre-credit roll)--just not the last part.

- Playing the theme songs from all the MGS games during the final fight (and showing the songs name, game they played in and composer) was classy and clever.

- I was a little disappointed that Snake was nothing but a pawn throughout the entire series--same with Otacon. I know that this was a common theme throughout the series, but I was hoping that it would turn around by the end of MGS4.

Questions:
1) Big Boss wanted to make peace with Snake at the end, I get that, but I dont understand why he would want to do this in-person knowing that coming into direct contact with him would kill him.

2) Did Vamp know what was going on too?

3) Anyone else already feeling the urge to play through the game once more?

4) Did anyone get 50 CQC and 50 Knife stuns for the Altair costume (Assassin's Creed)?

 

[deepbrown]

Second play through is the best! i feel so cool...I'm really stealthy, and I use MK2 lots...choose the right weapons - I shoot militia with rage bullets to make them charge against the PMC's and then I shoot all the PMC's with laughing bullets to make them walking targets

Also, I missed a whole other village in Act 2 where you can save some militia being held in a base by PMC's! Lots of secrets. Act 2 definitely has the most gameplay...

 

[patsu]

Also, I missed a whole other village in Act 2 where you can save some militia being held in a base by PMC's!

Where is this village ? I only saw the rebels on the ground (face down).

I missed the following items/extras:
* poster of AV model, Akina Minami
* Tailing the resistance's from rooftop and spotting the spybot
* Hollywood hand prints
* Quite a few more weapons to try out (Mosin, XM-8, ...)
* Getting and using the Sorrow doll
* Using face camos (I got them but never used)
* Camera and beauty modelling scenes (Again, got it but never tried)
* Shaking SIXAXIS in Rosemary's scene

 

[Darkon]

Spoiler

1) Big Boss wanted to make peace with Snake at the end, I get that, but I dont understand why he would want to do this in-person knowing that coming into direct contact with him would kill him.

2) Did Vamp know what was going on too?

1. Why not, he's old, he hasn't got anything to live for anymore and besides he's been already dead more
or less since Outer Heaven.

2. No

 

[deepbrown]

Where is this village ? I only saw the rebels on the ground (face down).

I missed the following items/extras:
* poster of AV model, Akina Minami
* Tailing the resistance's from rooftop and spotting the spybot
* Hollywood hand prints
* Quite a few more weapons to try out (Mosin, XM-8, ...)
* Getting and using the Sorrow doll
* Using face camos (I got them but never used)
* Camera and beauty modelling scenes (Again, got it but never tried)
* Shaking SIXAXIS in Rosemary's scene

Umm...I believe it's after the village where you turn the power off. You go to the left over some construction site next to a road...to find another little village (before the mansion). There are militia being held in one of the huts, that you can save...

 

[Crayon]

trinibwoy, I am having opposite troubles. Game seems to be constant 30fps but occasionally it jumps to 60fps. Slightly annoying but I live.

I have not noticed these jumps to 60fps.

I have noticed frequent (as in... anytime something interesting happens) dips below 30. This game really spends alot of time just sniffing 30fps but never really holding it as the action piles on.

I sort of wish the PS3 evolved more closely to the PS2 architecture so they could go really apeshit with particles and transparency like they used to. And of course.... efficiently render 60 frames a second. 60fps just looks natural and right to me for a game. 30 will be forever be "half speed" in my mind.

On another note.... awesome job on the resolution and image quality. I play sitting clsoe to a monitor, and when games use the lower resolutions it usually looks like a mess. MGS4 had a weird look, but was so clear and crisp. Detail really pops! I thought maybe it was using some sort of cheater aa (guess it was) but I was suprised to find out that it was the old resolution hijinks again. And this time with outstanding results.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I have not noticed these jumps to 60fps.

You haven't?! I saw this game Tuesday, and at some points it rushes along, not just smoother framerate, but actually uncapped update rate! In Act I, fighting the frog warriors, towards the end of the level in a room, I think before jumping down the lift IIRC, the motion jumped ahead to twice speed. Very off-putting - they should have capped update and refresh to 30 fps rather than let the engine just whizz ahead. This is on a 1080p panel. Dunno if it's different if PS3 is set to 720p.

A while I'm talking, I'm not overly excited about this game. Graphics I only rate so-so. some of the stuff, like the character geometry detail, and the material shaders, are excellent. That 'akira/akibya/whatever' bloke's balaclava looks fantastic! Lighting is moderate, but with some painfully lowres shadows. I saw moving checkers across a wall, and it took a while for me to twig it was the shadow of some powerlines! Textures also seem decidedly flat for this gen. I haven't looked closely but I didn't perceive any normal mapping. Any surface texturing seemed to be with baked-on lighting, and pretty lowres at that at times. That said, there's plenty of detail and variety throughout the levels, and some textures are given a plentiful RAM budget, such as the camo-suit textures. And peaking of which, you can tell which cutscenes are in-engine by turning your Snake pink, but you take quite a hit to Camouflage rating - a negative rating!

I also wasn't enamoured with the gameplay, because of the overburdened controls. That's something I'm sure people get used to, but it's made getting into the game in the first place tricky. Needing to press two buttons to shoot is counterintuitve after lots of programming by other shooters! Obviously production values are through the roof, but on the flipside the scripting and direction was that Japanese melodrama style, people turning their backs as they spiel long and uninteresting monologues.

Anyway, framerate changes are definitely there and not uncommon. And though the game is no-doubt brilliant in its way, its not everyone's cup of darjeeling

 

[Crayon]

Huh. That's weird I havn't noticed the jumps to 60. I'm usually pretty sensitive to framerate. Especially when I notice the drops all the time. Hmmmm....

Anyhow, Shifty glad you are trying out the game.

As somebody who spends lot of their limited cognitive capacity thinking about game design and gameplay, I say that everyone should play this game. It may not be to everyone's tastes but it offers alot to chew on for anyone who likes to think about games. (Just to be clear here, I am not speaking of the reeeeeeediculous surface story, which is a matter on it's own.)

It's like Shenmue that way. But fun. ;D

 

[DemoCoder]

Engine wise, the game of course doesn't stack up well to uber-shader-out-the-wazoo games, and yes, the shadows are aliased. However, the care that went into the overall design of the models and textures is just light years ahead of most games. The majority of UnrealEngine games might have technically better dynamic lighting, but they also feature completely crappy Cubist Blocky character designs. I'd say that MGS4 is very similar to Valve HL2 series in that it's not the highest tech, but HL2 series had outstanding care put into textures and level design which made up the difference.

The DoF effects are some of the best I've seen, very very seamless and lifelike in cut scenes.

I think for example, that we will all oogle over KZ2's lighting when it arrives, but I think the artwork will seem somewhat lacking. Already to me, it seems somewhat bland.

 

[Daozang]

I take it, this is your first MGS
I'm not sure about the technical aspect of the game, and the aesthetical aspect is very subjective, but the controls and the melodrama are trademarks of the series!
One thing I'm certain about, is that this game, and in fact the entire series is not for everyone.
IMO these games are possibly the most important SP games to this point in gaming history. Not because they excell at what they do in every way (because clearly this is not the case).
Their style is so unique that makes them equivalent with those movies from that director you either love or hate. There are no compromises in them, and that is something that this industry is in dire need of.
I'll take MGS over any generic shooter or stealth game that almost always feels like the same old same old with different graphics on top.
With a few more people like Kojima, we could actually stop comparing games with movies just as some of us never compare movies with books. And this kind of entertainment could take a form of it's own. A form of distinctive styles not based on genre, but on the distinguishing schools of their creators.
Anyway, it's clearly evident that I'm a Kojima fanboy...! And by the way, the game ROCKS!!!

Edit: This was a reply to Shifty, but I type slowly!!!!

 

[_phil_]

and it took a while for me to twig it was the shadow of some powerlines

What shadow engine can acurately project so fine details ?

Also normal mapping is almost eveywhere ,but probably too subtle for western culture.There is a lot of things they do with their engine ,but it's not the traditional check list of features.

For the controls ,sure they aren't easy at the beginning ,but if you try hard enough it should become a second nature.There is a lot you can do so the learnig curve is a little worse than other games.

 

[Daozang]

For the controls ,sure they aren't easy at the beginning ,but if you try hard enough it should become a second nature.There is a lot you can do so the learnig curve is a little worse than other games.

I used to press 3 out of 4 soulder buttons on MGS3 to lean and shoot, something that I loved doing because of the presure sensitivity. You could actually lean as much as you needed to.
I also loved how you could aim with X but if you changed your mind you had to gently release the button so that the weapon wouldn't shoot!

 

[deepbrown]

What shadow engine can acurately project so fine details ?

Also normal mapping is almost eveywhere ,but probably too subtle for western culture.There is a lot of things they do with their engine ,but it's not the traditional check list of features.

For the controls ,sure they aren't easy at the beginning ,but if you try hard enough it should become a second nature.There is a lot you can do so the learnig curve is a little worse than other games.

Aye...took me about 30minutes to get used to it.. I say that for the actions you can do, the controls are incredibly simple.

 

[Cornsnake]

I just checked a guide on how to do the fight againts Liquid. I love how they expect you to do something without telling you the controls.

 

[Betanumerical]

I just checked a guide on how to do the fight againts Liquid. I love how they expect you to do something without telling you the controls.

Pressing select during the liquid part brings up the control for that part of the game.

 

[deepbrown]

I just checked a guide on how to do the fight againts Liquid. I love how they expect you to do something without telling you the controls.

DOn't think they expect you to do anything...if the controls weren't obvious (ie. the only one you need to know is R1 - that's been CQC throughout the game and X - that's been a roll dodge throughout the game) other moves are simply extras tha, if you're lucky enough to find them, adds extra depth.

 

[trinibwoy]

The opening scene with all the explosions around you, the geckos and so on is quite hectic (and of course for a big part is cutscenes). Could be that there's some slowdown in that section, but during gameplay and even after that in general I have so far enjoyed a very smooth experience.

Good to know. Thanks for the feedback guys

 

[Neb]

What shadow engine can acurately project so fine details ?

Lets just say that lots of engines can and its done in several games, wheter power lines, ropes or fences.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

So,.....ok it has low res shadow maps...fine.....is the game the best looking game on ps3? Still Yes ! Did u have so many particles on screen in Uncharted, which had so good shadow maps? no.Did the character models have so much detail in any other game? no... Even the post proceesing effects are unsurpassed.

Its still the best looking game on the ps3 ! They have achieved something which people had not even expected from the gaming medium. on top of that they have gorgeus graphics!

Stop nitpicking guys!