Metal Gear Solid 4 post:#1067
- Thread starter Ben-Nice
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Deepbrown, I assume you meant to quote Ostepop? I know there is stealth, I just like shooting stuff.
Either will do, i just wanted to show off how stealthy I am and to prove to myself that stealthy is best way to play the game! You suckers!
Next run will be big boss, no kills, no alerts, in 4hours 30 min
...yeah right.
Sneaking is good if you want to extend the gameplay. I'm through chapter 2 and gave up on sneaking. Killing is easier and gets the game moving forward. Playing on Solid Normal, the AI is pretty dumb and there's not much challenge. I can't imagine anyone having a hard time on this difficulty. I was expect Solid Normal to be like Halo3 on Heroic or CoD on Hardened. It's anything but. So far, I've experienced more cutscenes and comm talk than actual gameplay! I hope it picks up action wise going forward.
Some of the cutscenes are quite cool while others are laughable. Same goes for the comm talk. I will say that the audio (sounds/BGM/voice acting) in this game is the best I've experienced to date and graphics rocks. The framerate does dip but nothing crippling and never interferes with gameplay. The controls are clumsy as is the gun play but maybe they wanted to keep everything like the older games vs change it up too much?
They've changed the controls loads. The game is funner while sneaking.
Pretty flawed argument you're giving here: "I don't like sneaking because it's not as easy as running through at speed and killing people. But the game is too short, there's more cutscenes than gameplay." Odd criticising a stealth game (if that is what you're doing) for being too short on gameplay when you're running through like an action game...you can do a speed run with any game btw.
What you're implying is that they should have designed the levels like an action game - to extend their length as an action game - while forgetting, that doing this would also double or even triple the length it would take to complete a level if you were playing it on stealth. The game shouts at you when you're spotted, it's meant to be played stealthfully - but you have the freedom to mix it up, and to enter into some creative warring when you are spotted.
9.5 hours cutscenes to 15hours gameplay for me on my first less stealthy run through.
You dont get it do you? I know that you can play it stealthy. I play it stealthy to.
BUT THE GAME CERTAINLY ENCOURAGES YOU TO KILL PEOPLE AT SOME TIMES. Like the FROGG encounter. Or with all the weapons and weapons upgrades. Or with how much ammo you have.
Infact, of all stealth games i have played, MGS4 is the one that encourages the most action.
Calm down chap. MGS4 encourages to play stealthily most of the time IMO, but certainly gives you the options to play it as an action. At times it can encourage you to play as action...like the Frog encounter in the first Act.
You can enter into "action" without being spotted btw...get out your Rocket Launcher during a battle, or throw grenades. At all these points you needn't get spotted, and duck behind cover with your sniper. This is where MGS4 really is the embodiment of a "tactical espionage action" game.
I'll jump in here, not sure why you are discussing but anyway,..
The game gives you a lot of weapons, and a lot of opportunity and different ways to kill but rewards you for not killing anyone,
I think that's awesome.
That may be so, but I cannot recall stealth games that allow one to go stealthy during boss battles besides MGS4 (B&B Corp) . Certainly not MGS2 nor MGS3 (maybe besides the final boss).
I thought that's why MGS4 sneaking is interesting ?
You can stealth kill in a busy battlefield if you want to. The FROG encounter, Act 5 opening stage, Act 2 rebel strikes, etc. are all perfectly fine for sneak attacks. During my first play through, I fought my way through these heated encounters. In my second attempt, I tried stealth kill for most of them.
I like the variety because if it's just sneaking, I tend to follow the same proven paths during replay, which makes it boring. The cool thing is you (I) think there was no where to hide/sneak, but there is if you try/think hard enough.
If you're bashing through, there will be selected choke points that you need to run through quickly (due to infinite spawn). And that's it.
At the beginning, I collected lot's of ration and noodles. So it's practically impossible for me to die.
If you're playing it stealth, then the experience and difficulty is obviously different (e.g., Why did you give up on sneaking ? Is it too difficult/tedious ?).
Actually, depending on which level, sometimes sneaking is faster, sometimes fighting is faster.
Gunplay control takes some getting used to, but it is very versatile and deep. Using the custom M4, you can switch between primary and secondary fire (shotgun, grenade launcher, bullet), bullet type (Slug, V. Ring, Buck), firing rate (automatic, one shot, 3-shot), gun sight view, first person vs third person view -- all using the same consistent control. For CQC, once you grab an enemy, you have 7 different ending moves. The details matter to gameplay. e.g., Use V. Ring ammo for shotgun if you're going for "no kill" achievements/emblems.
EDIT:
Also depending on the path you chose, the battlefield changes. In my first Act 2 game, I by-passed the prison because I couldn't take down the attack chopper (no RPG ammo !). By the time I circled back, the prison was already under control (I ended up putting a few rebels to sleep, didn't realize they were not PMCs). In my second game, I attacked the strong holds in different order, and was able to take part in the prison raid.
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I really don't get this.
L1 aim, R1 shoot, R2 weapon select, x jump,
pretty common configuration.
I'd prefer [] instead of O for reloading but this by itself doesn't explain all the control complains.
Seriously, what's so damn different?
I started of being super careful and sneaking all the way through on level 1. All that got me was having to fight Liquid's personal guards when you meet up with Fox Hound. Then at the start of Act 2, they really emphasize the importance of helping the rebels so while I took a sneaky path to get high ground advantage, the end result was still killing. Then no sneaking past the laughing boss (btw, nothing that easy should be considered a boss!) Then you're machine gunning the cow sounding machines in Drebin tank. No "sneaking" there. Then you're at the market and running through past them no sneaking there. And in the end you have to take one of them down but in reality you don't. Do a roll while you're running and you'll end up on the other side and the Raiden cutscene starts. More like a glitch vs sneaking.
If they really wanted to emphasize on sneaking, they should have limited the ammo and gun on the battlefiled. Make you go through places without fighting and spread out the check points thus with limited ammo you have no choice but to sneak. As you stated, there are a TON of weapons and customizations. It's very clear that Kojma saw the intense popularity of shooters and catered accordingly. Yes, you can play it as a sneaking game but it very much encourages you to gun it out. It's nice to have options and really, all said and done it'll help sales.
Actually it's more like L1 to prep weapon, R1 to shoot, Triangle to aim. You have to prep your gun to fire. A standard shooter has shoot-at-centre-of-screen just on the R1 button (or trigger on XB360). R1 is used for CQC but as that's proximity related, it's redundant a lot of the time.
Another aggravation is the way behaviour switches between 'combat mode' and 'stealth mode'. The moment you go up against a wall, you can't readily aim and shoot, nor can you pop out and attack someone. Case in point, last night I was in opening area of Act II. A guard just spotted me and was cautiously heading my way. I ducked behind a wall and intended to use CQC to take him out without causing a ruckus that'd attract more guards. As he approached, just up to the corner, I pushed left and R1. But instead of stepping away from the wall and assailing the guy with a fluid, deadly martial-arts combo, Snake peered out and smiled...
It was hilarious, and we all had a good chuckle, something this game is providing lots of. But it's hardly the pinnacle of intuitive combat gameplay
Sneaking doesn't mean not killing. Sneaking means not being spotted. It means sniping, it means using your octocamo, it means using your box, it means hiding behind corners, it means crawling, it means headshots, it means silencers, it means tranquilising, it means killing without being spotted.
In that particular section it was made clear to me that since I was placed in a top point I should snipe as many enemies as possible, then sneak down through the buildings, or on top of the buildings to snipe the rest...to do CQC on the stragglers and then to sneak through to the next area in the grass. That's what i did first time round. Second time I just put them to sleep one by one...without them spotting that I'd done so (dragging bodies into the grass)
You're sneaking through the battlefield...you are a guy with weapons in a battlefield. Why limit the player to only play stealthfully, when you're in the battlefield. You are asked not to be spotted by Otacon and Collonel...it's clear you're meant to, even if you personally find it hard.
Actually it's more like L1 to prep weapon, R1 to shoot, Triangle to aim. You have to prep your gun to fire. A standard shooter has shoot-at-centre-of-screen just on the R1 button (or trigger on XB360). R1 is used for CQC but as that's proximity related, it's redundant a lot of the time.
Another aggravation is the way behaviour switches between 'combat mode' and 'stealth mode'. The moment you go up against a wall, you can't readily aim and shoot, nor can you pop out and attack someone. Case in point, last night I was in opening area of Act II. A guard just spotted me and was cautiously heading my way. I ducked behind a wall and intended to use CQC to take him out without causing a ruckus that'd attract more guards. As he approached, just up to the corner, I pushed left and R1. But instead of stepping away from the wall and assailing the guy with a fluid, deadly martial-arts combo, Snake peered out and smiled...
It was hilarious, and we all had a good chuckle, something this game is providing lots of. But it's hardly the pinnacle of intuitive combat gameplay
Triangle isn't aim, it's zoom. You can shoot in the centre of the screen with the handy circle - what i do for nearly all of the guns, I only use triangle to aim far away. You can also put on auto-aim if you find it that hard.
It's L1 aim, R1 shoot, triangle zoom. And you know that triangle means stick to a wall. Why not press triangle to get off of the wall, crouching and sneaking upto him? Imagine that you wanted to peak out to shoot, and instead you jumped out to punch a guy without expecting it, thus giving away your position. That's what would happen if your controls were implemented.
It doesnt encourage anything except playing how you want to play. You can do whatever you like. Although, if you want to get the highest rank in the game, you can't kill, get no alerts etc. so that requires quite the sneakage.
I love it most as a sneaking game, trying to get past everything without even using the tranqs on anyone.
I love it most as a sneaking game, trying to get past everything without even using the tranqs on anyone.
Yes, I know, but in your typical shooter you don't need to aim your gun to just fire it off. You push the L1 button to aim through the sights. The MGS4 implementation adds an extra button press to achieve the same thing - if you just want to fire your gun while walking, you need to hold two buttons instead of one.
Again, it's a button adding an extra step. When you stand against a wall, you can shoot or attack people. You have to press triangle to disengage the wall and fight. If a guard reaches you when you're up against a wall, you can't just react by pulling the fire-button.
No. I've wanted to peak out shoot before on numerous times which isn't straightforward. In this specific case I walked past the wall, guard saw me, I doubled back, and thought I'd CQC the guy as he rounded the corner. Where instead I just said 'hello'.
Yahtzee hates on MGS4
please just enjoy his rant or don't, don't spoil a good thread with too much (over)reaction about his schtick.
please just enjoy his rant or don't, don't spoil a good thread with too much (over)reaction about his schtick.
Well, the question is really simple to all of you.
Do you guys think the game favors gunplay more than sneaking?
If not, I don't see what you are discussing.
It wouldn't be as clear if you have played previous MGSs.
Sneaking was more difficult and definitely much more cumbersome and the only ammo that I ran out of was anesthetic shots. So yes despite miserable bad shooting elements, I ended up being forced to gun my way out much more than MGS4.
L1 aim R1 shoot, like CoD4, Uncharted, RE4 (IIRC), and possibly one of the RCF modes. And like Uncharted, MGS4 has a free third person camera, so you need L1. (In Uncharted you have aimless shooting, but it is only useful in close proximity anyway)
corner shooting was useless for me, but detaching from wall (or getting up) to do CQC requires a little extra effort but I really like the way it is, since it can be done very quickly.
However, I wish CQC was more complex. Unfortunately, the simplest CQC is the most effective (thank God that's not the case for MGO).
Actually it's more like L1 to prep weapon, R1 to shoot, Triangle to aim. You have to prep your gun to fire. A standard shooter has shoot-at-centre-of-screen just on the R1 button (or trigger on XB360). R1 is used for CQC but as that's proximity related, it's redundant a lot of the time.
Another aggravation is the way behaviour switches between 'combat mode' and 'stealth mode'. The moment you go up against a wall, you can't readily aim and shoot, nor can you pop out and attack someone. Case in point, last night I was in opening area of Act II. A guard just spotted me and was cautiously heading my way. I ducked behind a wall and intended to use CQC to take him out without causing a ruckus that'd attract more guards. As he approached, just up to the corner, I pushed left and R1. But instead of stepping away from the wall and assailing the guy with a fluid, deadly martial-arts combo, Snake peered out and smiled...
It was hilarious, and we all had a good chuckle, something this game is providing lots of. But it's hardly the pinnacle of intuitive combat gameplay
In the options you need to turn on something I forget what its called but it keeps the fps mode so hitting L1 will auto go to fps.
Also you can pop out from walls in fps view easier imo by hitting the dpad left or right.
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