How can MS do better in Europe?

[Silent]

This means MS must work to change the perception.

Microsoft doesn't do allot of advertisment here but when they do they clearly target the "hardcore" (I don't like that word) gamer.

Also another observation is that the xbox 360 here also seems vey popular among technical (it) people.

It seems like there has been a love-in for the PS3's software diversity on this board in recent months (not an accusation, just an observation). If the PS3's lineup can be called diverse, then by any similar list of criteria, the 360's is even more diverse. Surely most people on this forum can agree with this, regardless of the continent they live on.

To be clear i'm personally a bit disappointed with the PS3 on that matter. Especially if you compare it to previous generations (and that is what I was referring to ) but maybe i'm just impatient.

On PSN network on the other hand they do release some games that are unconventional or diverse.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

The X360 has the most diverse game library of the 3 consoles.

 

[Nesh]

Since we're making generalizations, I thought Europeans love racing games? The 360 has tons of great racing games that would have shown off that equipment. My point stands, this "hardcore/testosteron(sp)" claim levelled at the console is nonsense.

If this is the common perception in Europe, then there has been a successful FUD campaign against this machine. This means MS must work to change the perception. The reality of its software lineup doesn't need to change, it's already very diversified.

It seems like there has been a love-in for the PS3's software diversity on this board in recent months (not an accusation, just an observation). If the PS3's lineup can be called diverse, then by any similar list of criteria, the 360's is even more diverse. Surely most people on this forum can agree with this, regardless of the continent they live on.

There is no such "FUD campaign" at all. Judging by the information circulating over the internet as well as in European forums and stores I ve visited, I can go as far as to say that it is the opposite that happens.

The PS3 may sell better for various reasons such us
1)brand loyalty
2)brand awareness
3)future games
4)games that happen to appeal more to the European market
5)other features unique to the console

As for racing games, I cant see anything in particular that is a 360 exclusive and may excite the European gamers tremendously other than Forza Motorsport 2. Europeans btw are very attached to the Gran Turismo series.

Lastly in terms of diversification depends how you define "diverse". People I know that own a 360 usually own the same games that are available on the PS3 or the usual successful FPS and third person shooters of which many also happen to exist on PC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As for racing games, I cant see anything in particular that is a 360 exclusive and may excite the European gamers tremendously other than Forza Motorsport 2. Europeans btw are very attached to the Gran Turismo series.

And for the record that brand loyalty has been grown from a long series of stellar, ground-breaking racers, and isn't just blinkered fanboyism. It's a success Sony are able to milk.

Lastly in terms of diversification depends how you define "diverse". People I know that own a 360 usually own the same games that are available on the PS3 or the usual successful FPS and third person shooters of which many also happen to exist on PC.

I think the 'diverse library' discussion is hard to be had due to unclear definitions and a valid regards for how much diversity is actually important. I dare say nothing in the history of gaming has as diverse a library as PS3 at the moment, for the simple fact what other consoles have provided interactive fish-tanks and Japanese-art screensaver things?! But how much do those titles help sell (directly or indirectly) the platform? I'm not sure actually diversity is at all important - it's perceived diversity and availibility of desired genres that matter to winning the EU market (amongst other things!)

 

[Tap In]

when talking of games diversity as a reason for Europeans not picking up a 360, it seems more to me like people who are just choosing NOT to see what is this gen, a very diverse line up.

It seems that they are more prejudiced to just not buy MS products and assume based on last gen that sony has the line up.

wii is another product altogether IMO.

 

[scooby_dooby]

when talking of games diversity as a reason for Europeans not picking up a 360, it seems more to me like people who are just choosing NOT to see what is this gen, a very diverse line up.

It seems that they are more prejudiced to just not buy MS products and assume based on last gen that sony has the line up.

wii is another product altogether IMO.

Yup, it's really more a matter of stereotypes, than actual analysis of the lineups.

Obviously, MS's only true recourse is improved advertising. The lineup is there, the pricepoint is there...but their advertising has dropped the ball.

 

[desmond]

it is more of a hardware than software issue, x360 is viewed as inferior product (noise, rrog). i am pretty sure that most x360 only games would sell well on ps3 in europe and to a lesser extent japan.

 

[Zassk]

As for racing games, I cant see anything in particular that is a 360 exclusive and may excite the European gamers tremendously other than Forza Motorsport 2. Europeans btw are very attached to the Gran Turismo series.

In the context of the discussion, it didn't have to be an exclusive. The comment was that X360 games were violent and repulsed a friend's wife. A racing game like PGR4 or Dirt or Burnout would have been appropriate in this situation. There are plenty of such low-violence games available on this platform, which would not offend a casual observer, European or otherwise. My point is that the problem is not the software lineup.

 

[Silent]

I also think that you can't narrow it to one factor why the 360 doesn't do it very wel in Europe. It's also not that black and white.

I personally think it's a matter of taste (gamelibrary), build construction of the console (their has been stories in the news about the RROD's) , low trust in products from Microsoft, lack of advertisment and very strong loyalty to the playstation platform.

I'm also not very convinced that the reason why French customers don't pick up the 360 is the same for Belgians, Italians, Germans, etc

 

[assen]

Around here, the official Sony representative "owns" all the "lifestyle" magazines, and they gush in each and every issue about this or that overpriced crappy digital camera or cellphone; the official Microsoft representative is busy kissing government asses to sell in bulk tens of thousands of Windows+Office packages for government PCs that can't even run them.

Playstation 3 is sold everywhere in big consumer electronics shops, while the 360 is sold in PC hardware enthusiast shops (all of two of them).

Microsoft can do much, much better if they even TRY to.

 

[goonergaz]

IMHO this is why X360 is doing 'OK':

The US love to back their 'own' product.

I cannot see how this can be countered for the simple fact that it's the only region that is actually doing 'well'. Europe is OK and Japan is all but dead.

Why isn't it popular in Japan? For the same reason, in that Japan can buy the Wii/PS3 for their gaming needs, so X360 will only sell for 'must have' exclusives.

Why isn't isn't it doing well in Europe? Well, in the UK it is - this is probably down to:

Similar tastes in games to US
The extra delay
The extra cost
The anti PS3 FUD campain (things like the constant lies spread prior to launch)

 

[goonergaz]

What about the rest of EU? Well brand loyalty, US isn't exactly 'popular' at the moment let alone the Microsoft brand, couple that with the wonderful hardware reliabilty fiasco and you have people not really wanting to buy the X360.

Personally I think PS3 has a much wider choice of software, X360 games seem for more "hardcore" with the odd 'something different' whereas PS3 has less games total but a nice range - I mean - where are the X360 party games? I think this is another reason why UK seem to like the X360, they get a Wii & X360, they work hand in hand quite well.

For the record, I had a X360 at launch - I sold it before this Christmas and haven't missed it one bit...I will probably buy one again, but nothing grabs me at the moment, whereas with PS3 I just completed Uncharted and am playing through R&C:ToD - I also have Singstar and Eye of Judgement that my kids would not be without...that's diversity...(IMHO)

 

[pipo]

Obviously, MS's only true recourse is improved advertising. The lineup is there, the pricepoint is there...but their advertising has dropped the ball.

Yup. I really wonder what they're up to when GTA4 comes around...

 

[Daozang]

I'm not sure about this, but I think that EU gamers are split between PC and console, and their experience with the xbox brand is that their games will eventually come out for the pc...
My experience with the first xbox was a bit disapointing. All my favorite games on that platform ended up being released on pc as well.

As for brand loyalty, well PS is a name in europe. Pro Evolution and GT are games that are tied with that name. Many people I know buy a PS3 only for GTA4 without knowing that it will be released for the Xbox as well... And those who do know are either brand loyal, or consider the ps3 a better machine (BR, the full-hd missconception, less noise, better hardware and no RROD...)

I guess that MS needs to advertise their (racing, soccer) games more. Consider this, most people I know can think of only one game when talking about xbox and that is Halo...

As for the anti-american shit... No comment...

 

[archangelmorph]

I'm not sure about this, but I think that EU gamers are split between PC and console, and their experience with the xbox brand is that their games will eventually come out for the pc...
My experience with the first xbox was a bit disapointing. All my favorite games on that platform ended up being released on pc as well.

This *could* potentially be a big problem for MS if they continue.. With the releases of big franchises like GeOW, Halo & Mass Effect hitting PCs not very long after their initial console release, AND adding a horde of extra content as well as fixing bugs (of which still haven't been sorted out via a patch on the console version, yep i'm looking at you ME..) & the improved textures/res/IQ the PC platform can provide, arten't they seriously going to hurt their console platform's software sales considering all of those consumers who went out & paid £40 for their games could have easily waited a few months & got the a better version of the same game for £30 & on a platform they also own (& in the case of FPSs, with arguably better controls too..)

IMO I understand MS's desire to revive the PC platform but releasing "ultimate" editions of your top platform titles on the PC too early is only going to hurt you, diluting the strength of the console's appeal in the long run..

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's only going to affect hardcore gamers with Big Rigs though. The majority of the console markets isn't made up of PC gamers, or even would-be PC gamers, but of kids and blokes who have the PC in one room and a console in their living room and like to game there, and mum's who just like to pop a disk in and wave around, and all sorts. I don't see the PC market taking away from that, and I don't imagine that much of the EU market (those 40 million odd PS2 owners) would have been coaxed away from their PS2's onto PC evenif the library was the same, because the experience isn't.

 

[Trawler]

Here's an idea that would suit Europe to a T. MS should buy the Commodore brand name and release a new pack called the Commodore 360 (idea stolen from a typo on a thread at shacknews).

The pack would include a 'special edition' 360 with a classic C64 colour case, and include a 120gig hd, keyboard, mouse, a years subscription to XNA creators club and XNA development tools to load up on your home PC. And why not a 64 emulator built in with 100 classic games on the HD!

Winner!

 

[BoardBonobo]

This *could* potentially be a big problem for MS if they continue.. With the releases of big franchises like GeOW, Halo & Mass Effect hitting PCs not very long after their initial console release, AND adding a horde of extra content as well as fixing bugs (of which still haven't been sorted out via a patch on the console version, yep i'm looking at you ME..) & the improved textures/res/IQ the PC platform can provide, arten't they seriously going to hurt their console platform's software sales considering all of those consumers who went out & paid £40 for their games could have easily waited a few months & got the a better version of the same game for £30 & on a platform they also own (& in the case of FPSs, with arguably better controls too..)

IMO I understand MS's desire to revive the PC platform but releasing "ultimate" editions of your top platform titles on the PC too early is only going to hurt you, diluting the strength of the console's appeal in the long run..

This is mainly the reason my 360 hasn't been switched on since I got my PS3. Bioshock - PC version, GeOW - 360 then PC version (so much better). Everything I want on the 360 will be available on the PC eventually and will be almost certainly better. I'll never get Uncharted or Resistance (1 and 2) and all the rest though, so I have to have a PS3 for those games.

 

[joker454]

This is mainly the reason my 360 hasn't been switched on since I got my PS3. Bioshock - PC version, GeOW - 360 then PC version (so much better). Everything I want on the 360 will be available on the PC eventually and will be almost certainly better. I'll never get Uncharted or Resistance (1 and 2) and all the rest though, so I have to have a PS3 for those games.

Hmm, interesting theory. I guess this is where differences in console pricing comes into play. Here in the US, it's way cheaper to just get a 360 to play these games, and you don't have to wait one year+ for them to get ported to pc. For most people, it would cost a lot of money to upgrade their pc's to be able to play them properly. But, I've read on this forum that console prices in Europe are far higher than here, which I guess makes the pc a viable option after all, even if it means having to spend money pc upgrading and waiting a year for the port. Add to this that, from the sound of it here, the Xblive service is totally gimped and mostly worthless in Europe, so the robust system we take for granted here stateside is a non issue abroad.

So, if you remove XBLive from the equation and increase the 360's price, then I guess I can see how the PS3 would be a viable alternative after all. The good news about this, if true, means that the talk of pc gaming dying is all wrong since it sounds like its alive and healthy in Europe.

EDIT: Holy smokes, I didn't realize how extreme the price difference really was. I just googled it, the 360 Premium comes up as 349 euros, which translates to $508(!!!) This doesn't even account for the substantially higher taxes paid in Europe at point of sale. Wow. Ok, well I stand corrected. Crazy high pricing and no xbox live makes it clear why its doing poorly there. I can't help but wonder what in heck Microsoft is thinking with pricing like that. I love my 360, but I'd never pay that much for it. Unless maybe you guys across the pond are making twice what we are in salary For that kind of money, I'd rather upgrade my pc.

 

[AlphaWolf]

EDIT: Holy smokes, I didn't realize how extreme the price difference really was. I just googled it, the 360 Premium comes up as 349 euros, which translates to $508(!!!) This doesn't even account for the substantially higher taxes paid in Europe at point of sale.

Actually most (all?) of Europe includes the VAT (15-25% sales tax) in their listed pricing.