Dissatisfied? Warning:Long

[AlphaWolf]

The N64 did do moderately well but it was Sony that was on top back then. The only big N64 FPS games were Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and the Turok series. I do believe we have Microsoft to thank for the greater western flavor in console gaming, they actually made it a point to embrace PC developers with a friendly environment bringing them into console gaming. But I will concede that the rise of the gaming industry and companies all over the world jumping in as a result played a big role too. It was probably inevitable with Microsoft only quickening it.

Edit: Ah, I forgot to put in Perfect Dark as another big FPS, it owed much of its success to being the spiritual successor to Goldeneye.

You can blame MS if you like. Or you can blame people like me who wouldn't touch a 2d platformer or a jrpg with a 100' pole.

No one is making you buy the games, just like no one ever made me buy a mario game I managed to survive.

 

[Subtlesnake]

many of the weapons were heavily altered from their old forms

Which weapons were heavily altered? The carbine, battle rifle, SMG, shotgun, sniper rifle, brute shot, plasma rifle, fuel rod gun and plasma sword all behave more or less as they did in Halo 2.

Looking at the major changes that were made, the needler is now a double handed weapon, but this is just a return to how the gun was in Halo 1 (only in this incarnation it's actually useful). The rocket launcher doesn't home any more, but again this is just a return to how things were in Halo 1, where you actually needed a modicum of skill to take out vehicles. And the missile pod now provides this functionality anyway (albeit in a more balanced form).

What else? Well, the AR is back in a new form, but I can hardly see why you would complain about the fact that it can actually function as a mid-range weapon now, having decent accuracy and power. Oh, and the pistol has been changed, but again, only to give it the power that it had in Halo 1.

So the changes that have been made are in general pretty minor and only serve to redress some of the imbalances created by Halo 2.

or the new ones had little to differentiate themselves utility wise from the old.

You don't think being able to carry turrets is useful? Or having a long range insta-hit anti vehicle weapon? Or being able to deal significant amounts of splash damage with a melee weapon?

The two new grenades? One is pointless (the spike) and the other is of limited use and a rare find for much of the game.

Both of these grenades are extremely useful for taking out the flood, especially the ranged combat forms (which otherwise cause you to deplete huge amounts of ammo).

I do like the equipment, but only a few of the items are actually very useful. Once again, as in 2, there is an utterly useless vehicle in the Brute chopper.

I would agree about the equipment, which I think is more geared to the multiplayer side of the game.

But I don't understand how you can say the chopper is useless. It has a lower profile than the warthog so is harder to hit, and it's main weapon is very powerful against vehicles and has a huge range. You can just sit back and destroy anything that tries to come towards you, without taking any damage yourself.

On the other hand using the warthog or prowler (at higher difficulties, anyway) requires you continually run in and out of enemy fire, spending just enough time for your gunner to take out some of the enemies, without getting overwhelmed - and then retreating for for your shields to recharge. This happens 5, 6 7 times before an encounter is completed, and if you mess up once - that's it. Oh, yes and you often have to deal with a barrage of fuel rod fire as well, *hoping* that your gunner manages to take out the offending enemy before a stray blast blows you to pieces.

That's why I've found using the chopper to be much more straightforward.

The one interesting point about playing the arbiter disappeared with the loss of his cloaking ability.

Well you never actually play as the Arbiter in the single player campaign.

The ending race was a poor copy of the first game and the parts which often made the first game so enjoyable, Cortana and her sense of humor and sarcasm, were missing until what? The next to last level? Bungie left something here. I seem to lack all the words to describe what is missing, but something critical is gone. Unpolished, Length, Failure to Fix previous problems (missing Cortana.)

But the payoff of finding Cortana and your concern for her up until that point, and the mystery of the secret she held, was a big part of what made the story compelling, and gave it its tone. It seems that you want everything - a great story, that keeps everything as it was, weapons that are unaltered, but somehow make a better arsenal, and super high fidelity content that's delivered in (comparatively) huge quantities. But it doesn't work that way - in the real world sacrifices have to be made.

In cutting out 90% of the filler of Halo 1 and Halo 2, Bungie ended up with a shorter experience. In trying to give the story some emotional resonance, certain character changes had to be made. Now maybe you don't think Bungie made the right tradeoffs, but at the very least be prepared to accept them as tradeoffs.

And be prepared to accept that your claims are highly subjective. What is 'missing' for you might not be missing for other people.

 

[Silenti]

Subtlesnake
The plasma weapons are far more useful against the Flood than they ever were in 1 and 2. That was my main point about the weaponry changes. The AR is back and useful and i love it. The needler is useful for once, yes. Don't care about the rocker launcher really. I always hand those weapons out to the Marines since they do not run out of ammo. The portable, 3rd person view mounted weaponry you can carry around is semi-useful to keep down your ammo expenditure and for a few choke points but the missile launcher has so little ammo when removed that it is almost entirely pointless.
As to the grenades, how is the spike better than being able to carry 4 plasmas? They will both kill one of the major (carbine firing) flood forms only now it is more difficult to keep yourself full of grenades with 4 types carrying 2 each rather than the reverse.
The Chopper is a royal PITA to drive. Makes it nearly useless. Give me anything but a chopper.
You do play the Arbiter in single player in co-op. No cloaking. He's just MC without any attachment.
My point about Cortana is that she was missing for too long. She provided comic relief and a kind of guide through the game with her running commentary that was missing far too much without her presence.

I freely admit my beefs are subjective in many cases. Almost any, not entirely technical glitch, will be subjective. Though I did not give a damn about the slightly lower than 720p rendering.

 

[Subtlesnake]

Subtlesnake
The plasma weapons are far more useful against the Flood than they ever were in 1 and 2. That was my main point about the weaponry changes.

And that's a bad thing? Don't you think in a level like Cortana, you need effective plasma weapons?

As to the grenades, how is the spike better than being able to carry 4 plasmas? They will both kill one of the major (carbine firing) flood forms only now it is more difficult to keep yourself full of grenades with 4 types carrying 2 each rather than the reverse.

It's not, but I thought your point was that it wasn't useful as a grenade, not that it wasn't sufficiently differentiated from the other types. And I mean, it's Bungie's job to regulate the amount of grenades you have at any one time - as the player you just run over grenades and if you need them, you pick them up.

If Bungie had made spikers as abundant as plasmas then it would be like having 4 plasma grenades (two of type A two of type B), but the fact that they didn't reflects Bungie's desire to limit grenade usage, rather than anything intrinsic to the grenade types themselves.

If you have a problem with that (the limited usage) then fair enough, but it seems like a rather specific issue to me, given that plasma grenades and frag grenades are relatively abundant.

The Chopper is a royal PITA to drive. Makes it nearly useless.

Well, you have to learn how to drive it. It's pretty manoeuvrable from the front; reversing is the only major weakness, so you have to make sure you always turn from the front. But I mean if you hang back and fire at enemies from as far away as possible then you don't have to worry about manoeuvring - it's just like a static gun emplacement.

If it was easier to drive it would be overpowered.

You do play the Arbiter in single player in co-op. No cloaking. He's just MC without any attachment.

Yes, OK, but I mean they could have just had the other player be a Spartan instead!

My point about Cortana is that she was missing for too long. She provided comic relief and a kind of guide through the game with her running commentary that was missing far too much without her presence.

I freely admit my beefs are subjective in many cases. Almost any, not entirely technical glitch, will be subjective. Though I did not give a damn about the slightly lower than 720p rendering.

Right, but I take you were making a general point about the state of games in general? I can't disagree with your specific preferences, but at the same time if a trade-off was made that was good for the player base overall, then you can't really say that it was 'wrong'.

In that regard, most of your problems seem to be down to specific personal preferences rather than huge glaring faults in the game.

So for example I don't think the situation with Cortana is so clear-cut. I mean in Halo 2 she was absent from the Arbiter missions anyway, and after Delta Halo you had to wait until 'Gravemind' until she returned. In Halo 3 you do get a running commentary; it just isn't her, so it depends how much you depend on her as a character, however, again, you appreciate her so much more when she returns precisely because she's been away for so long.

And I feel that her capture is what makes the mood of Halo 3 somewhat grim; that feeling that things aren't quite right, that the flood have already won, and she may be corrupted irreparably.

So for the type of story Bungie wanted to achieve, the cost was not having Cortana around for much of the game. But it wasn't an 'accidental mistake' they made, but a deliberate choice that had both good and bad ramifications. That's just game design.

 

[Silenti]

Guess we will just have to disagree on the HALO3 tradeoffs then. Most especially with respect to Cortana and the granades.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Madden 08 – I’ve played 2 games with the Oakland Raiders, average score about 90-7 me. I have played on rookie since it has been so long and I still do not know the controls. I am a little uncertain what to think at this point

I don't have a 360, and haven't played any of the games so I won't comment on any of them, except for this one.

And this is just silly.

You haven't played in two years, and are surprised you can beat the CPU on ROOKIE by insane amounts without fully understanding the controls?

For starters, I haven't played a Madden game in 2 years, but I'm confident I could beat the CPU by 90 points on rookie.

As for your not being confident that you know the controls, on ROOKIE, you don't need to know all the different line shifts or audibles or hot routes or 'special' features.

All you need is a basic understanding of NFL football rules and know very basic commands, such as how to hand the ball off and how to throw to the receiver you want.

That's it.

I simply can't fathom the idea that you believe a game is disappointing because you are playing on a beginner level and find the game too easy.

After you read this message, go play a game on All-Madden and come back and tell us what happens.

I'm sure it'll be even more frustrating for you when NOTHING you do works than when EVERYTHING you do works as is the case on Rookie.

That's why there's other difficult levels available to you, as well as individual sliders that you can adjust if you feel the base AI is lacking even with the difficulty level increased. (Or, sliders you can lower if you feel the game is too easy one level and too difficult on the next.)

Like I said, I haven't played the other games so I can't comment on the validity of your criticisms specifically, I can only say that this criticism is completely absurd and immediately downgrades my opinion of the accuracy of your statements.

Please, go play a game on All-Madden and tell us what happens. You'll come back and report the game is now insanely and unfairly difficult.

Once again, that's why there are multiple difficulty settings. And in order to master the settings, you will have to make sure you've mastered the controls that you don't have confidence you understand at this point.

Madden, too easy on Rookie. Really? Seriously?

 

[Falkster]

I can understand where you're coming from Selenti, I felt the same way during the previous generation of consoles. Games seemed unpolished, few games had the replayability that I remembered from previous years, and there wasn't a single game that had that certain quality which I loved in games like FFVII, goldeneye, battletoads, ocarina of time, and super mario bros. Unlike you, however, it was this generation of games that reminded me why I really love games. It has been years since I played a game as good as Mass Effect, Oblivion, Bioshock, and Halo 3.

Sure, the games have bugs, but they're not nearly as bad as they were in the past (I'm speaking from personal experience which is probably not indicative of everyone's experiences). I don't remember any pop-in in Halo 3, but I distinctly remember it everywhere in Halo 2. I've yet to experience any bugs in Mass Effect, while KOTOR on the other hand had some memorably hilarious bugs. I ran into one bug in Oblivion, but countless bugs in Morrowind. Bioshock, Viva Pinata, Lost Planet, GoW, and all the other games that I've enjoyed were all bug-free for me.


Then there's replayability, this is something that I personally believe has increased dramatically compared to previous years. Whether you want to replay Bioshock as an evil character, GoW with co-op over live, Halo 3 on legendary with skulls, Oblivion with characters of different classes, or just replaying games to get their achievements, I can't imagine there being enough time to fully replay all these games.

I've been incredibly satisfied with gaming over the past two years. Games just seem more fun, complete, and numerous.

 

[vazel]

You can blame MS if you like. Or you can blame people like me who wouldn't touch a 2d platformer or a jrpg with a 100' pole.

No one is making you buy the games, just like no one ever made me buy a mario game I managed to survive.

Of course people like you are to blame too for gobbling up all those games. There were many people that embraced the kind of gaming that was normally near-confined to the PC. The cat is out of the bag and there's no putting it back in. Microsoft's strategy worked very well(they really had no choice but to do what they did considering J-devs had a big bias for j-consoles).

 

[Silenti]

RancidLunchmeat: First of all I said I was reserving judgment. At this point my unwillingness to consider purchasing the game at full price was a point I was using to illustrate as fallout from the other games I was disappointed in and finally it was at least 10 years (I believe it was specifically Madden 96). Starting out on Rookie didn't seem all that unreasonable to me. I've upped the level to pro and am winning out around 50-10 or so on average, with the Oakland Raiders. Offense has gotten more difficult to execute certainly, but not really defensively. I'm sure I will soon up the difficulty again. This was the game I stuck on the list w/o really judging it and was simply using it as an example of how my previous experience was affecting my future purchases.

 

[Silenti]

Falkster: Maybe I will try Bioshock, after the price falls and I have some mastery of Madden. From what I understand the game rather lacks in replayability.

I guess I am kind of looking for the defining game this generation and so far feel I have not found it. For me last gen, it was HALO. Before that it was Goldeneye and then going back to NHL 96'. It just feels like it should be there and I haven't found it. (Discounting PC games, console only.) I thought Assassin's Creed might be the one, it hasn't proven to be. Mass Effect I had hoped for something like KOTOR, only longer and with things like the inventory management fixed. Some of my problem, which you don't seem to share, comes from play style. I don't go around and try and master each character type. I choose out the best I can and then build them into an indestructible force. So the alternate character types in Mass Effect and Oblivion have no use for me.

The defining game for me just must not be here yet. I had such high hopes for several of these games only to have them somewhat dashed. I look ahead and haven't really seen anything that strikes my fancy and I get a bit concerned. Then I stop paying full price, or just stop buying altogether for a time, from the disappointment. Happened with the N64 for me. Only bought a handful of games becauase I found them so disappointing, especially after Goldeneye.

 

[valioso]

Goldeneye was not without problems, and it wasn't all that long either, I think you are just embracing it more because of nostalgic memories.

What you're looking for, just does not exist, you're looking for some kind of be all do all of games that fits exactly everything you want it to be... that's not happening unless you develop it yourself for yourself.

Games make compromises, development resources and production cash is limited. Such is the way when games cost as much to make as they do now.

 

[valioso]

You say halo was a defining game, I own an xbox 1 and a xbox 360 and I have never played a Halo game, I know, heresy, I like fps games, I just don't care for Halo, i guess is all an opinion thing. The jump between generations is smaller

 

[Xmas]

North American companies like Intel, Nvidia, PowerVR

*cough*

 

[RobertR1]

This thread makes me wanna play the Halo3 campaign again!

 

[Silenti]

valioso: As to the development, I have written much, but it will never happen. I'm not an artist or a programmer, though I know several. I've considered working on just getting the gameplay correct, tuned, etc and leaving all the rest and seeing if it was enough to attract attention, but that is unlikely. I spoke to MS years ago about 6 months prior to the original release, they wanted a working demo for any consideration. No way I can build that.

And HALO was a defining game for me. Finally something to stand with Goldeneye from the previous gen. Perhaps it was not that long, I don't remember exactly, but it did offer mass replayability for me. Never did get tired of setting off some of those alarms and just mowing down the endless security guards.

There are just some decisions I fail to understand in the game world. After talking to some friends it generally comes down to one or two problems. A bunch of friends get together and make the game and no one has any business sense at all, or it is constrained my business interests enforced by corporate that have to do with release timing. The only company I have seen avoid this is Blizzard

RobertR1: Least something good came of this thread then.

 

[archangelmorph]

There are just some decisions I fail to understand in the game world. After talking to some friends it generally comes down to one or two problems. A bunch of friends get together and make the game and no one has any business sense at all, or it is constrained my business interests enforced by corporate that have to do with release timing. The only company I have seen avoid this is Blizzard

Who are your friends?

Do they work in the industry?

 

[Silenti]

Yes in some cases, others are forums members or people who are heavily involved in free or pay MMO PC games. One artist, one programmer, some MUD people and some people who, how to put it, are very very good and spend a great deal of time and energy (sometimes money) dominating various MMO games. (Puzzle Pirates, some new free/microtransaction fairy world game I've never messed with) etc. The people in this last category end up working with the developers simply because they possess so much power in the game - This needs to be fixed, this removed entirely because we can dominate entire economies and screw everyone else through a little creative thinking, etc.

I make no claims to being some industry insider. I do know some people personally, not just through online forums such as this. The comment about developers hiring a bunch of friends with no business sense came from the artist.

Some friends and I just do not get how some major mistakes are made or why franchises are entirely ruined through certain decisions. Hell, we used to joke about starting a consulting business to tell companies what NOT to do.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Sounds like a big part of it is just getting older and not having friends around to constantly play Goldeneye with. There are late teens who will be talking about Halo 3 the same way 10 years from now.

 

[Kzin]

One thing wich I am a little disapointed in is that the levels were larger in halo1 than in halo3. Sure, you could see real montains and stuff far away in halo3, but the spaces you could actualy go were alot smaller and confined. I dont think I can think of any battles in halo3 wich are as large and give the player as much freedom as any of the battles in the second level in halo1 (were your are rescuing the marines).

Theres a similar place i tsavo highway where you are bunkered down, and wave after wave of brutes comes pouring in. You basicaly stuck behind the wall, and they attack from one direction. In any battle in the first level of halo1 you have a much larger playfield, they attack from many directions, you have much more options and the battles can play out in so many different ways.

So im a little disapointed that even now after halo3 on the xbox360, halo1 still offers the best fps battles in my opinion.

 

[dub273]

Darkness for example I believe that deserved higher scores.

The Darkness was a really well-designed game with great visuals, an interesting story and very, very good voice acting. It also has the clunkiest controls of any modern first-person title and really horrible play mechanics for the weapons and the Darkness powers. The control (or should I say lack thereof) for the Creeping Dark ability is one of the reasons I think the game merits the scores it received.