NPD Nov. You know you want it!

Many Europeans begin to find it laughable how many shooters present the US as the protagonists/good guys fighting errorists. I cant recall the word terrorist being used as much in games years ago.

I also wonder if there is any differentce in the way Europeans and Americans perceive these realistic shooters.

Europeans are being taught that is wrong to even consider the existence of "good guys" - everyone should be equal, everyone is just different, everyone is just coming from a different culture. The EU gives out grants for games "celebrating the cultural diversity of Europe", I kid you not.

Frankly, I was shocked at the German charts quoted earlier. These are two different worlds; there'll be soon talk of "games targeting the European gamer" just as it's fashionable to talk about games targeting women. Crysis in first place? PS3 version of Assassin's Creed higher than the 360 version? PC version of COD4 far ahead of the console versions? The Atlantic is too narrow for such a chasm.
 
Next gen tie in ratios thanks to NPD.
Sony Cowboy@GAF said:
Thanks to Credit Suisse:

PS3 4.01
Wii 3.86 (not including Wii Sports)
360 6.85

This doesn't track online purchases (VC, XBL, PSN) since it's NPD.
 
I can see a change in modern gaming in the last ten years that Sony has not. The people who grew up on doom and quake got tired of upgrading their PCs because of wives and mortgages. They want a 'action movie' movie experience from their video games. The platform console player who loved mario64 and crash bandicot grew up and gave up video games except some of them that came back to the wii.

Games like final fantasy and platformers like tomb raider or uncharted just dont appeal to the current console demographic. Driving, sports, and shooting will always be more interesting than jumping from one ledge to another without falling to the current gamer.
 
Next gen tie in ratios thanks to NPD.


This doesn't track online purchases (VC, XBL, PSN) since it's NPD.

Thats one thing I was thinking. Sony will start selling a portion of its games online. Warhawk and GT5 are already there, and so will Wipeout HD.

Numbers collected by retailers wont be reflective of their real sales. Many download their games instead of buying disks
 
Thats one thing I was thinking. Sony will start selling a portion of its games online. Warhawk and GT5 are already there, and so will Wipeout HD.

Numbers collected by retailers wont be reflective of their real sales. Many download their games instead of buying disks

Yeah but how many actually purchase them online and with so few titles available. Im doubting it would really be enough to suggest that their inclusion would augment the numbers by very much.
 
Yeah but how many actually purchase them online and with so few titles available. Im doubting it would really be enough to suggest that their inclusion would augment the numbers by very much.

I'm not sure download is ready to take over, especially if Sony wants to push blu-ray, file size is going to be a real issue. I certainly wouldn't want to wait for a 25gb download or use up half my hard drive for one title. Really I wouldn't even want 7gb wasted for 1 title, that's using up 10% of available space for one game. You also lose portability and trade ins with downloaded.

It will have a presence but buying (full) games online for consoles is a long way from being mainstream.
 
I can see a change in modern gaming in the last ten years that Sony has not. The people who grew up on doom and quake got tired of upgrading their PCs because of wives and mortgages. They want a 'action movie' movie experience from their video games. The platform console player who loved mario64 and crash bandicot grew up and gave up video games except some of them that came back to the wii.

I think it is even simpler then that. Before last generation no consoles came standard with dual analog stick so playing first person shooters sucked. Now with the analog stick all the function if playing with a mouse and keyboard is there, just not as precise

I also feel that the switch to 3d is the reason platforming games aren't popular anymore, Mario64 was like the pinnacle for 3d platforming and platformers have been on a decline since. Now it's just adding gimmick after gimmick or they are 3rd person shooters with platform elements
 
Yeah but how many actually purchase them online and with so few titles available. Im doubting it would really be enough to suggest that their inclusion would augment the numbers by very much.

Is there a way we can get the numbers for Warhawk?

We might get some answers from that. I am sure that for some games atleast, there could be many who might be willing to buy online due to regional delays and unavailability in stores. Probably in a similar manner gamers were making extra accounts to download games that werent available locally.

Is Sony planning to release Wipeout HD on disk too btw?
 
Uncharted is not a real platformer. At best it is a hybrid third person shooter/platformer. It was marketed poorly there are good size fire fights in the game. They should of marketed those. That and offline/online co-op would of helped. Using the uncharted is a platformer as why it did not sell well is just not valid. Want to see what platformer is go take a look at SMG. AC is not a shooter and that sold pretty damn good. Uncharted got incredible reviews if I had a PS3 I would be all over it. Sony failed another AAA game.

Sony marketing has been off this whole generation. Only resistance and motorstorm have sold as PS3 exclusives. All the other good selling PS3 games are multiplatform. MS this whole generation has been able to generate hype for title after title.
 
Europeans are being taught that is wrong to even consider the existence of "good guys" - everyone should be equal, everyone is just different, everyone is just coming from a different culture. The EU gives out grants for games "celebrating the cultural diversity of Europe", I kid you not.

Frankly, I was shocked at the German charts quoted earlier. These are two different worlds; there'll be soon talk of "games targeting the European gamer" just as it's fashionable to talk about games targeting women. Crysis in first place? PS3 version of Assassin's Creed higher than the 360 version? PC version of COD4 far ahead of the console versions? The Atlantic is too narrow for such a chasm.

In the predictions of NPD for USA , the PC version of COD4 has minus than 18000 units, does not appear on the list. The game has sold in the United States less than in countries like France, Germany, or " small" countries like Sweden or Spain. Even according to these data, only Crysis or COD4 in Germany could have sold more than than the all launches of PC in November in USA :rolleyes:
 
As Laa-yosh said many western developers don't give a damn about Japan, their games don't sell there anyway so the point stands for NA. And britain for the most part follows NA sales trends more so than european with a few exceptions such as Football.

Do you have sales charts for Britain ?
As for western developers don't give a damn about Japan, I largely agree but that does not mean that some won't try (looking at the worldwide market, not just Japan). I mentioned that LBP would be interesting to watch. I hope they make it simple to understand though.

In the end, Western developers may look at the worldwide sales overall to decide whether to make/port a game instead of just looking at the NA market.

Uncharted looks great, fun demo, lots of marketing.... bomb. As you said just perceptions and opinion. Reality is the decider.

Of course. This is what I meant. To call their prediction "truth" today is unrealistic.

What's dodgy about the 360 numbers? If you have a problem with something specific, say it, don't just try to FUD the whole argument.

... that the original post list 360 having 28 million sellers without proper context (that it has 2 years of selling). If the numbers are correct, then Wii may very well have more million sellers than 360 in its first year despite many people's opinion that Wii don't have good games.

Also subsequent posts include sales beyond the first year cut off line. This makes it harder to compare the actual performance of the console titles in its first year.

I am not trying to FUD the argument, but to gain some clarity.



EDIT:
I'm not saying it doesnt look like it could be good, just that it hasnt earned the right to be mentioned in the same sentence as MGS, GT5, and FF. These are historic, hardware-selling franchises. Sony has hyped it to be something big but the game doesnt have the pedigree to have earned that.

Certainly. I did not list them together because of pedigree. I highlighted those titles because they are representative of PS3 titles in different genre next year. In addition, they are very visible, which is better than something like UT3 (PS3) and Uncharted which are barely talked about until near launch, or after launch.

I know youre looking at the library angle, and maybe youre right, but having to make the case that hardware-selling titles arent important, is a position i wouldnt envy defending.

They are important, but they still form a part of the PS3 game library. Title-based sales prediction is a VooDoo art. It may be easier to forecast based on the total package (instead of trying to capture the spikes).

Again, Sony finds itself in a position where it must reverse a trend where XBL is viewed as the superior online service.

... for gamers ? They have a few things against them. The size/existing network effect; the feature set and the consistency. The trick is to position it as something different. So packaging of Playstation Home is key. The world is big enough for a few entertainment networks. They can all grow independently, especially when PSN is free.

Isnt that statement contradictory? Are we gonna base it on real events or your beliefs? :)

I am simply pointing out that calling your prediction "truth" is premature. I don't participate in sales forecasting. :)

Seriously though, Sony has already admitted price is a huge problem for them with the 399 SKU, so i think in the buying season most call this generations armageddon (holiday 08), the price is more than just a footnote on strategy, it could very well be the most important factor.

Yes... today. Until Sony delivers something to justify for the higher price, the price perception is going to haunt them.
 
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Yet the Wii has sold more consoles in 1 year than the 360 in 2 years, so that comparision would be unfair just as well...
 
It's a good question - did the 360 have more million sellers in its first year than the PS3? The answer is yes. Finding accurate worldwide sales is hard, so I have graphed U.S. sales from vgchartz over the first year of each console's life.

trend.PNG


These are the first 5 most likely million sellers on PS3, and the 12 first million sellers on 360 that performed equal or better in the same timeframe. Some slow-burning games that eventually sold a million on 360 are omitted.

Note they didn't all reach 1 million in U.S. and these are U.S. figures shown, but the graph still speaks to the relative health of the two consoles' software sales. I think the graph speaks for itself.

Cool ! The "launch first" strategy and great marketing have certainly enabled Microsoft to gather and sustain good momentum. BTW, Is it possible to include million unit Wii titles too (if it's not too difficult) ? ^_^
 
Yet the Wii has sold more consoles in 1 year than the 360 in 2 years, so that comparision would be unfair just as well...

Depending on what you want to measure, all 3 vendors are given the "same" time to perform. Nintendo's strategy allows them to sell hardware at a profit, and everything at an alarming rate... being the last guy to launch (They launched 1 week behind PS3 right ?). This just means that attach ratio is only half the picture, and Nintendo is a god.

Sony seems to take a longer view of the race and suffering because of it. It's very hard to predict their moves because they don't follow the books (and doesn't seem to have the intention to :LOL: ). Xbox 360 and Nintendo both follow well known marketing strategies (but Nintendo's approach is very hard to execute. It will be a classic case study for years to come).
 
I dunno, I think Sony's been caught with their pants down and they're getting close to desperate by now. They clearly did not expect Microsoft to suceed with the early launch; and the entire Wii thing was even more of a surprise, to Nintendo as well (look at their production problems, the demand is obviously not what they've planned for).

It's not about following any book, they're on a track that's been laid out years ago. BR and Cell have constrained their pricing strategy, they can't rush out AAA titles out of nowhere, they can't suddenly borrow the Wiimote control scheme and so on. Whatever view they have of the race now is close to irrelevant, as the deicisions that have the most effect have been made a long time ago.
 
Do you have sales charts for Britain ?
As for western developers don't give a damn about Japan, I largely agree but that does not mean that some won't try (looking at the worldwide market, not just Japan). I mentioned that LBP would be interesting to watch. I hope they make it simple to understand though.

There's some sales charts around for UK. Uncharted debuted there at 23rd for example. Assassin's Creed and CoD4 were near the top of the charts. If you're expecting LBP to be a chart topping title I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. It will probably sell better than Eye of Judgement (11k first month) but it's probably going to do worse than titles like Uncharted (corrected for install base).

In the end, Western developers may look at the worldwide sales overall to decide whether to make/port a game instead of just looking at the NA market.

Western developers will continue to look at Japan like they look at France or Germany, to them Japan is a relatively small market.

... that the original post list 360 having 28 million sellers without proper context (that it has 2 years of selling). If the numbers are correct, then Wii may very well have more million sellers than 360 in its first year despite many people's opinion that Wii don't have good games.

The attach rate for the wii can best be described as poor. With (more than?) double the first year install base of the 360 it really hasn't moved much more software than the 360 did.

Also subsequent posts include sales beyond the first year cut off line. This makes it harder to compare the actual performance of the console titles in its first year.

We don't have continuous numbers for all titles so there was always going to be a bit of guesswork as to when and where a title reached the million mark. It's pretty clear that the ps3 did very poorly in comparison to the 360 in terms of sales, however dodgy the numbers look to you.

I am not trying to FUD the argument, but to gain some clarity.

You gain clarity by discussing the issue not trying to throw a shadow of doubt over it.
 
...they're on a track that's been laid out years ago. BR and Cell have constrained their pricing strategy, they can't rush out AAA titles out of nowhere, they can't suddenly borrow the Wiimote control scheme and so on. Whatever view they have of the race now is close to irrelevant, as the deicisions that have the most effect have been made a long time ago.
Their view of the race isn't irrelevant though because the 'race' is a 5+ year one. The choices Sony made are showing fruit in Japan and Europe. It's not a great success in the US, and it seems the market overall has been quite polarized from the position PlayStation has occupied, with a single system straddling both ends of the market not proving as popular as more 'specialised' systems - 'hardcore gamers' choose XB360; 'casuals' choose Wii; Sony tries to reach all and catches but the ends of each market. However, it's still a five year 'race' and it's Sony's success at that finishing line that matters still. There's plenty of time for the market to evolve into one that wants HD playback and all that jazz in their console. I don't think we can look at the market in its current state and say with absolute confidence that it'll remain that way.

This obviously isn't where Sony want to be, nor where many were expecting them to be (prior to the $600 price announcement!), but their strategy isn't proven irrelevant until near the end. To use an analogy, Steve Cram would run at the back of the pack in some races before accelerating to the front in the last lap. If the market evolves in a way Sony rightfully anticipated, they could see a faster acceleration of adoption than the others. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, nor is even likely. Only that you can't see if their plan was right until it's been executed fully, just as you couldn't see Steve Cram at the back of the pack in the middle of lap 2 and conclude his plan to win the race is now irrelevant and he's out of the running.
 
The running analogy doesn't work for me either. While a distance runner can stay at the back of the pack and still win at the end, he's at least keeping pace with the pack. He doesn't fall further and further behind with each step.

Auto racing would be a better analogy. A slow car isn't just going to magically get faster, it just falls behind more and more.
 
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