Story in games,thoughts.

[ninzel]

I find myself sometimes wanting really good storytelling in games,but find that I usually can't follow them. Even a game like Half Life 2 which I've played probably a half dozen times,fails to really sink besides the superficial basics. I try and be engaged in the story, and really pay attention but after a time I just hear "blah blah blah" when the cut scenes come on. And yet I have no problem getting into and remembering the stories of movies and books. I could write essay's on my favorites,but for some reason with stories in games, it just doesn't sink in.
I sometimes wonder if the act of playing a game and the mindset that is needed(maybe similar to engaging in playing a sport) is counter to the mind set needed to really get into a good story. Am I alone,is this common and if so are devs waisting their time creating detailed story lines beyond a basic premise for game play.
Or does the story telling process simply need to be improved and if so how.
Are we trying to force upon this medium,a feature for the sake of making ourselves feel better about said medium or to have some check box filled, that really has no practical place in it?

 

[Nesh]

Metal Gear Solid games has managed to do that better than any other game for me. I think it is because transitions between gameplay and story are sudden.

You watch cut scene, then you change to gameplay, gameplay feels different than what you were feeling, experiencing and expecting in the cut scenes, an hour or two passes, then back to cut scene.

It just doesnt seem natural. In the book there is a constant flow of events. In the game there is not. The "events" during gameplay rely on you and there is an empty time frame between the previous cutscene and the next. During the gameplay time you are doing things that are unrelated to the story. It does no diffeence if you kill 100 monsters or just 10. Collecting power ups, weapons, scrolling through menus etc dont add into the story.

Imagine watching a movie in which there are sudden changes to someone runnning here and there doing various things. It brakes the flow.

Where should you concentrate on? Gameplay? skill? completing everything at 100%? plot?

 

[TheMightyPuck]

I read an interview with David Jaffe somewhere where he stated that an episode of Murder She Wrote could have ten time the impact of any game (at the point we are presently at "storytelling" in games). I tend to agree. If I want real story I tend to go for books and film media. The best games (IMO) have great gameplay mechanics. Good storytelling is important as a motivation to keep playing and find out what happens next but it supports rather than creates the immersion. Just read some reviews for the latest Mario game. They all start off mocking the obvious "story" and then saying it is the greatest game of all time.

 

[ninzel]

So then are we kidding ourselves when we expect a great in depth story in a game?
The last two responses would suggest I'm not alone in not really absorbing stories in games.

 

[TheMightyPuck]

I think story is important but it can't mask a bad gameplay mechanic. That said, I doubt I would have played KOTOR/KOTOR2 if they weren't Star Wars games. HL2 depends on gameplay mechanic plus story. It has a solid gameplay mechanic but also succeeds in having you care about some of the characters. No one cares about Mario in the same way (oh man i got to get the next supermario to see what happens). I think games CAN tell stories, it is just that storytelling in games is very young.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My post on this subject at the Snowblind Studios forum :

---

The problem with storytelling is in games, it's basically a discrete mix of movie bits interspersed among the game playing. It works just as a way of stringing together different environments and characters. CON without the story would feel very weird as you move from woods to deserts to hell-land, yet at the same time the story is irrelevant and you can skip it without losing anything. Whether Orcs are attacking, an evil god is opening a portal, or the munchkins have turned bad, doesn't interest me and the players I know.

This gen we're seeing some more story-strong games. There's Heavenly Sword which is very strong on story, and Uncharted: Drakes Fortune. Both are introducing proper acting to the movie-clips (realtime or video) that make the characters more engaging. But they're still creating a chequerboard of gameplay - cutscene - gameplay - cutscene - gameplay - cutscene.

The best story games out there were the old adventure games, which were all about story, basically providing a sort of interactive book, rather than a player-controlled movie. Action games just don't lend themselves to deep story, as you have to interrupt the emotion of the story with the emotion of gameplay. Imagine if reading a book, you have to stop every 15 minutes to play a puzzle game, with moments of frustration as you tackle the challenges. If you interrupt the flow, you lose the impact and the whole point of the story. Could you get the same emotional impact from a film if you watched it in 5 minute lots separated by 10 minute violin lessons?

IMO if the story is going to be presented in conventional form, it's not important what it does. It exists only to move along the gameplay to the next variation of graphics. I'm playing Guild Wars Nightfall at the moment without any interest in the story, and certainly no emotional involvement. The story just exists to move me from one campaign area to another, where I hope to find new skills to vary the gameplay.

I *do* think that perhaps, using some very smart technology and/or design, the story could be embedded in the game though. You'd need to set up a character that people empathise with and a strong enough hook that from the early moments of the game, the player is playing to see what happens next. And it has to be real too. It's ridiculous when the story says 'Quick, we have to get to Windale before the Orcs attack!' and the player's response is 'okay, but I'm just going to spend 3 hours wandering the wood in the hopes of racking up kills, gaining XP, and looking for treasure. The Orcs won't attack until I cross a checkpoint'. The story is always ignored in the game mechanics. The Witchwake (not sure about the name) mods for NWN managed to get around this and for me were extremely engaging. The start, not knowing who you are, and the difference in gameplay so that you can make real life-like choices (avoiding the monsters) without penalty, made it engrossing to play for the story. I didn't make silly gameplay choices - 'I'll fight everything even when this character wouldn't in a proper story' instead of 'I'm too weak to challenge these monsters so I'll sneak around'. ICO was also excellent, providing a couple of characters in a situation that was extremely enchanting. The developers created a bond with the girl that had a human touch (holding the right button down to hold hands was subtle yet excellent, as you needed a physical action to engage with the girl that paralleled actually holding hands) so she seemed like a person rather than a gameplay device. I played the game to try and get them to escape, to fulfil the story, rather than because the gameplay was so engaging. The gameplay itself was pretty primitive and undemanding, and on its own wouldn't have captivated.

I think the new consoles abilities to render emotionally engaging characters would prove very effective in creating empathetic characters making it easier to catch the player's emotional attentions, but without gameplay to match, the illusion will be shattered by nonsensical actions and events and the player will quickly drop back into the normal world.

 

[ninzel]

I wonder though if the barrier is not technological,but mental. By that I mean,no matter how good you are at presenting a story in a game,your mind is working in a state that just isn't good for getting into a story.
Books are about as low tech as it gets yet people have no problem engaging in reading.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, but application of technology should engage the player. Like ICO. Technologically it wasn't anything in gameplay terms that was outstanding, but the artistry as I mention above draws the player into a more emotional (passive story emotion rather than active, reactionary gameplay emotions) experience.

Looking at your book analogy, books do have 'technology' for engaging the reader. Just a collection of words won't engage readers on the emotional level. Techniques are used, choice of language, structure, theme, characters, etc. that make it a good experience. Games are generally lacking story elements in the core gameplay experience, much like a story from an 8 year old lacks the core story-telling qualities that make for a classic emotional read.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I've always felt that Ocarina of Time and Fallout had two of the best "stories" I'd ever seen in games. I think that this is because to great extent, the "story" is something you live within the game world. In OoT, you get to know this world through exploring it and interacting at your leisure, yet you have its destruction always in the back of your mind. You getting to know that world and finally rescuing it is the story. You discover who those characters are and their role in the future largely by exploring and playing the game.

Fallout is similar. The story isn't a prescribed narrative as much as it is your own actions in the game world. The world is free enough, and your actions have enough real consequences, that you really feel like something is happening. This is best illustrated through the bond that players feel with Woof. You can't control Woof. He doesn't say anything. He doesn't even have any cutscenes! Yet, the role he plays with you in battles somehow makes him into a character all his own...and he has a different story for every player. For some players, he's that strange dog that showed up and was killed rather quickly. For others, he's the faithful companion that you risked life and limb to save, yet died attacking a chaingun-wielding mutant anyway.

 

[Cryect]

Well first off HL2 doesn't really have a good story. The stories in games that I remember would be like System Shock 2, Fallout (1 not 2), or Vampires: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (definitely don't remember it for the combat). In each of these the way the story gets presented makes them memorable though each of them have their own way to present the story but the strongest thing in them is the characters that are involved and that you can really feel like they might be real if you were in those settings.

Then are games with supposed good stories that I thought were awful like KOTOR (felt too much like drivel with Star Wars mildly attached to it) or most FF's. Most often it comes down to major issues in how the story is delivered or the characters don't feel right and other times I'm just not digging the setting.

 

[ninzel]

Looking at your book analogy, books do have 'technology' for engaging the reader. Just a collection of words won't engage readers on the emotional level. Techniques are used, choice of language, structure, theme, characters, etc. that make it a good experience.

I think it's a stretch to equate technique in terms of storytelling with technology in video games. Technique IMO is how you use your technology and assets. How you piece them or string them together.
The technology involved in a book would be the actual ink on the page. The font could be seen as a technology in writing I guess. A bolder font used at the right place evokes a certain feeling.
I'm not convinced that technology will solve the problem. Two games I played last gen that drew me in,not necessarily to the story,but charmed me with it's characters were Wind Waker and Pikmin. Hardly technological showcases, but I felt a lifelikeness to the characters that I rarely feel.
Edit: If at it took for creating a great engaging and memorable story and characters was technology,every game would have it. All it would take would be a money.

 

[standing ovation]

For me, empathetic characters are what separate a good story from a bad one.

 

[Color me Dan]

I think the hardest part of any game would be how to make the game mechanic as much of the story as the story itself. Playing Morrowind and making my own path through a deep and interesting world is such a game, here game mechanics basically create the likability and depth, not the story. Then you have games like Grim Fandango or Final Fantasy where the story is the main compelling mechanic. Story and game mechanics are hard to mix because of their inherent differences in execusion. HL2 figured stronger characters and never leaving Freeman would tie better bonds with characters, it did; yet the rest was the same. That little difference ment a whole lot, and shouldn't be underestimated. It's all about how people work and percieve their surroundings, in this case it happened so that a bond developed. Often what i percieve developers do is to seperate the two elements, HL2 merely added a "gradient" between the mechanics, if you could call it that.

You either work with stuff to make the story go forward, or the story moves forward as you work. In either case there is a different motivation, and finding an equilibrium where both become the primary drive is probably a holy grail for most devs.

 

[AntShaw]

I think part of the main problem with most of the 'stories' in modern games is the fact it is strictly told from a first person perspective. You are getting the main characters angle only.

With most modern books/movies you have a third person aspect where you can get much more engaged in character plots.

This is the most glaring aspect that leaves me hanging in almost any modern game I have seen. I.E. Bisohock, HL2, Uncharted, Halo 3, etc...

You can take a look at Halo 2, which tried to separate from the same mold, and people SLAYED that game for its SP story. Yet, they were simply trying to engage you more to the multiple view points.

This struggle will continue to exist. In any of the upcoming games I have seen, there is no hope in sight.

 

[Skrying]

Half Life 2. Don't make the gameplay and story coexist, instead tie them together and require each other to exist as one whole. To many games make a point of saying "Hey, if you don't like our story you can still like our game." This way of working means you never get both in one solid package. Developers are to afraid that if you don't like one it'll ruin the other. The Half Life series has always been about making you feel part of the world, and therefore the story. It's what sets the game so far apart from others.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think it's a stretch to equate technique in terms of storytelling with technology in video games.

How emotive a story could you create if you had a vocabulary limited to the 3000 most common words, and a half dozen character names? If characters were only ever happy or sad, and never frustrated, infuriated, delighted, joyous, jealous... More vocabulary means more capacity to describe and involve. That's what technology offers to games.

Hardly technological showcases, but I felt a lifelikeness to the characters that I rarely feel.

Would they have been engaging if they were limited to 16 colours and characters were represented by blocks? ICO pulled me in like few games have done, but that doesn't mean last gen tech was the limit reached for emotional story-telling in games. I just means they found a suitable way to engage with those stories. The same level of engagement couldn't have been achieved in other genres because they were lacking capacity to add story-telling into the game.

Instead of books, think of games as movies, as these are both a 'visual' medium. Would a movie be engaging if the actors move stiffly in starched clothes with fixed facial expressions and only spoke the same repeated lines over and over in a wooden voice?

 

[catisfit]

I'd put Deus Ex as the only game which has had a great story that I've cared about while playing. Metal Gear Solid has a great story but thinking back, having completed e.g. MGS2 I can't remember very much at all about what the story was. I can still remember pretty much everything from the Deus Ex story, probably because it was so freeform that decisions you made in the game would affect the story.

Spoiler

I still remember learning about a year after I'd finished it that if you fought through the waves of UNATCO troops at Paul's apartment, you could keep him alive and he'd be present for the rest of the game. I didn't even realise first time round (took the coward's way out down the fire escape!!) I can't think of another game which has as dynamic a storyline as that.

 

[Daozang]

Deus Ex and MGS are the 2 games that come to mind. Then we have The Longest Journey, and many other adventure games that had a great story.
I don't think that anyone who liked MGS didn't like the story. After all it takes a larger part of the experience than actuall gameplay.

Then again, there are many people that confuse story with atmosphere in a game. Undying for example had a very predictable and cliche riddled story but the atmosphere was really something. HL falls into that category IMO.

My oppinion is that story is there for the player to feel like he is accomplising something. Even Donkey Kong had a story, as minimal as it was, for that purpose.
I could never finish a Bioware RPG without a story. 80 hours to run around without purpose could get rather borring...

 

[Daozang]

Instead of books, think of games as movies, as these are both a 'visual' medium. Would a movie be engaging if the actors move stiffly in starched clothes with fixed facial expressions and only spoke the same repeated lines over and over in a wooden voice?

But these are completely different. You don't need photorealism to bring emotion to games. In fact I think that the technology is there for something more abstract or more surrealistic that could actually work.
At least it is there for something very stylised, like LBP for example.
We don't need to compare games with movies or books all the time. Games need to become something of their own or else they'll never be able to be anything more.

 

[archangelmorph]

Personally I don't believe stories in video games should be presented wholly for the purpose of "moving the action along" & any game that does this has missed the point entirely...

I think first and formost games' stories so far have existed only to provide the player with a sense of purpose.. To provide some form of constrained play experience which has a beginning, middle and end.. To provide the player with a progressive challenge which allows the player to move from one challege to the next and ultimately reach an end point where the satisfaction & rewards are offered..

This mechanism however is not something in reality which "requires" a "plot" to perform however & many games (predominantly the titles of old) have provided the player with that same progressive play experience (challenge->reward->challenge->reward) without the need to implement a strong narrative mechism..

In my view Half Life 2 however is a great example of a title which truely uses a plot/narrative/story mechanism, not as a driver for progressive play, but as the fundamental basis which defines the purpose of the game in itself..

I truely believe that stories in games can reach new heights with regards to capturing the true essence of the narrative for the user & really exploding their imagination in terms of presenting a truely compelling & believable world however I believe that the mechanisms used to do this need to evolve.. Sure the technology is there now & it can really aid in provideding new tools to help (human expression/digital actors like in Heavenly sword being one..) but how these tools are used ultimately defines the quality and ability-to-captivate of the whole experience..

It's not always the most visually descriptive elements that contribute to telling a compelling story & even games like Warcraft (a 2D RTS being probably the most abstract gameplay mechanism one could use to really engross the player in a world/plot/experience) used very subtle elements to really engross the player in a believable world full of enchantment, history and lore you could actually care about..