"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

[Lalaland]

I agree on the obvious sharpening being hard on the eyes, the plaster ceiling textures are getting the worst of it, looking almost 'posterised' they're so bad. Worse they're doing a pan and scan cut job, if you're going to be as lazy with this port as you obviously are Capcom at least offer it in 4:3 and be honest about it (or tuck that option in somewhere in the options). I'd far rather big black bars than Pan & Scan <shudder>

 

[Nesh]

they mention character textures and lighting will receive a face lift; which show up in the suspected 360/ps3 screen grabs. they don't specify however if current gen and last gen versions will port with equal or further elevated enhancements.

Looking at the mansion in the newest renders again, it definitely seems to be every bit as the same model that was used for the original remake 13 years ago.


If you look carefully in the original remake at the near top of all of the pillars facing you in the hall of the mansion. you can still see offsets at the texture seems.

(Screen grabs taken from emulation)

Those same offsets are present in the new render.

and if you look at the new render carefully, you'll also notice that they also sharpened the old textures. which i think may give a harder appearance on the eyes. (well on mine anyways.)

I see a slight difference in the angle between the old and the new. Did they take the old assets and re-rendered them at a different angle? If yes they probably rerendered them with clearer details, I dont think they simply used a sharpening

 

[Lalaland]

Look at the ceiling textures, they show heavy signs of sharpening halos, some white crushing and are shoddily aligned to boot. It's the same with the brick work over the doorway, the seams between each block are now apparently filled with bright white mortar. I think it just shows on some textures worse than others, the muted browns of the wooden details tend not to show the artifacts as strongly as the near white ceiling tiles and bricks. Particularly as the original ceiling texture seems low res even compared to it's contemporaries.

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

I see a slight difference in the angle between the old and the new. Did they take the old assets and re-rendered them at a different angle? If yes they probably rerendered them with clearer details, I dont think they simply used a sharpening

The renders are in 6000X5633. the original remake had 640x480 pre-recorded backdrops at 30 fps. the game was on 2 dics weighing almost 3gbs. to have pre-recorded backdrops stored as those renders, the game would weigh 100x that.


from Capcom's Resident Evil Page. -

The environments come alive with detail thanks to resolution upgrades and non-static 3D models. Post-processing effects like Bloom filters, which were not easy to do at the time of the original release, have been added to make the HD graphics even more realistic.

★The original game called this technique "video backgrounds."We recorded the backgrounds themselves as videos to create realism that couldn't be rendered in real time with the technology of the time.

I think that they're aiming to re-release the old mansion in-engine in real time. which i think is possible especially if the game is going to be in locked perspectives. I would like to see though better screen grabs, the muddy pictures are just too hard to even tell the differences.

Everything looks just about identical, however i did read that someone spotted a couple flaws. such as missing DOF, Proper light balances and a clipping mistake.

These are the screen grabs for which you can check out.

Original

New

Clipping mistake

that's all i got to support my theory.

 

[Karamazov]

could they use the same technique that was done in little big adventure 2 were the exterior background was rendered in real time but with locked camera, because too detailed at the time to offer a decent fps with a moving camera, but you could recenter the camera angle by pressing a key. I remember keeping pressing the recenter camera key while movine the character to give the illusion of a moving camera following the character, but at a very low fps ^^

http://youtu.be/2w7jBzkQ8ho?t=1m56s

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

I'm not entirely sure if whether the angles will be done in the original manner, or change as part of using 3D assets. They mention the camera will be able to track the character's movement. whether it's RE0's 2D panning or Code veronica's 3D i don't know. I'd like to believe it's 3D; which would greatly boost the experience. some footage would be nice.

I have to also see what the specs and HDD space of the PC version are, this would also give some more insight.

 

[EsppiraK]

Ok I am becoming addicted to this xD


Lei Fang, black outfit.
Dead or alive 5
32.497 polygons

Dead or alive 2 Ultimate original Xbox (I couldn't find the black dress so this is the standard one.)
15.900 polygons

Lei Fang, black outfit
Dead or alive 2 Dreamcast.
8.884 polygons

Guess were all those polys went on the Dreamcast version xD




Dead or Alive 2 Dreamcast
Helena, (outfit 6),
9.246 polygons

Jann- lee, (outfit 4),
8416 polygons

Tekken tag tournament, Playstation 2

Jim Kazama,
6.534polygons

Ling Xiaoyu
6.755polygons

Oops seems that there is a limit of 6 images per post, so I am done for today.. I think xD

For the guy asking for Soul calibur polycount, SC characters are very very low poly, averaging 3.000-4.000, weapos included. for example, Astaroth + axe is 3.408 polygons.

I'll post more some other day.

 

[Nesh]

Ok I am becoming addicted to this xD


Lei Fang, black outfit.
Dead or alive 5
32.497 polygons

Dead or alive 2 Ultimate original Xbox (I couldn't find the black dress so this is the standard one.)
15.900 polygons

Lei Fang, black outfit
Dead or alive 2 Dreamcast.
8.884 polygons

Guess were all those polys went on the Dreamcast version xD




Dead or Alive 2 Dreamcast
Helena, (outfit 6),
9.246 polygons

Jann- lee, (outfit 4),
8416 polygons

Tekken tag tournament, Playstation 2

Jim Kazama,
6.534polygons

Ling Xiaoyu
6.755polygons

Oops seems that there is a limit of 6 images per post, so I am done for today.. I think xD

For the guy asking for Soul calibur polycount, SC characters are very very low poly, averaging 3.000-4.000, weapos included. for example, Astaroth + axe is 3.408 polygons.

I'll post more some other day.

Interesting that polygons were higher on the DC DOA2 than on PS2 TTT. Characters looked more detailed in TTT

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Do you really have to quote that entire post?

 

[Nesh]

Nah.

 

[EsppiraK]

Interesting that polygons were higher on the DC DOA2 than on PS2 TTT. Characters looked more detailed in TTT

Nope they don't, especially on close ups is pretty obvious that DOA characters are more detailed it's Tecmo's craziness for absurd detail, even nails are modeled lol

Maybe other characters have higher polycount on TTT, I'll take a look later.


Professor K Jet set Radio Future Xbox

10.259 polygons.

This is the las for today I promise xD

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

Maybe other characters have higher polycount on TTT, I'll take a look later.


Professor K Jet set Radio Future Xbox

10.259 polygons.

This is the las for today I promise xD

very interesting stuff,

Nope they don't, especially on close ups is pretty obvious that DOA characters are more detailed it's Tecmo's craziness for absurd detail, even nails are modeled lol

oh yeah, since the first DOA, it's always been about the characters with them. Tekken uses more texturing, the same rendering choices are still ongoing between the two companies.

 

[idsn6]

With the stages in TTT being relatively simplistic compared to DOA2's, it was easy to assume that a comparable polygon budget allocated in favor of the characters would have resulted in higher density. The TTT numbers may also be surprising because the developers portrayed them as exorbitant when explaining the reduced count for the models in Tekken 4 (I am curious how low-poly they went in that game).

“We were suddenly told that the number of polygons we could use had increased, and we could overlap translucence as much as we wanted, so when we were porting Tekken Tag Tournament, which we developed on SYSTEM 12 at that time, we even portrayed each of the teeth in the human models’ mouths with polygons. Thinking back, it was a total waste of polygons. That is why the game models in Tekken 4 have a higher perfection level than the game models in Tekken Tag Tournament, even though the number of polygons are less.”

 

[xaeroxcore]

Incredible info! Not always the higher poly count results in a better looking game... TTT has some visual elements better than Soul Calibur and DOA2 (specially in the texture departament). Anyway, Soul calibur despite having a lower poly count characters, they appear to be more detailed (but they´re not)and better animated (in this point SC is in fact ahead) than the TTT ones. SC is superior on the illumination department. DOA 2 is more complex overall than TTT, and the characters look bigger than the TTT ones. But the lighting seems to be more flat than in TTT. I´m not an expert, but this is what i can conclude afters years of watching and comparing this 3 games, and today learn about the poly count of each one. Feel free to correct me if i´m wrong. Finally, what do you guys think? this poly counts of character revelation of TTT and DOA 2 could prove that TTT or T4 could be possible on Dreamcast ???

 

[Nesh]

Incredible info! Not always the higher poly count results in a better looking game... TTT has some visual elements better than Soul Calibur and DOA2 (specially in the texture departament). Anyway, Soul calibur despite having a lower poly count characters, they appear to be more detailed (but they´re not)and better animated (in this point SC is in fact ahead) than the TTT ones. SC is superior on the illumination department. DOA 2 is more complex overall than TTT, and the characters look bigger than the TTT ones. But the lighting seems to be more flat than in TTT. I´m not an expert, but this is what i can conclude afters years of watching and comparing this 3 games, and today learn about the poly count of each one. Feel free to correct me if i´m wrong. Finally, what do you guys think? this poly counts of character revelation of TTT and DOA 2 could prove that TTT or T4 could be possible on Dreamcast ???

Geometry wise? Probably. But TTT looked better than Soul Calibur (and to me at least better than DOA2). There are so many things that make graphics and eat performance
T4 though had bigger and free roaming environments which required more geometry. Lighting and effects were quite amazing too for the PS2

 

[EsppiraK]

More Jet set Radio Future love.

Corn
1.554 polygons

Yoyo
1.676 polygons

Beat
1.612 polygons

 

[xaeroxcore]

Geometry wise? Probably. But TTT looked better than Soul Calibur (and to me at least better than DOA2). There are so many things that make graphics and eat performance
T4 though had bigger and free roaming environments which required more geometry. Lighting and effects were quite amazing too for the PS2

But i think DOA 2 enviroments has similar level of detail than the TTT ones...I can see T4 level of detail can be reached on DC, but with flat lighting and some effects turned off...

 

[xaeroxcore]

More Jet set Radio Future love.

Corn
1.554 polygons

Yoyo
1.676 polygons

Beat
1.612 polygons

Images does not load!

 

[Nesh]

But i think DOA 2 enviroments has similar level of detail than the TTT ones...I can see T4 level of detail can be reached on DC, but with flat lighting and some effects turned off...

Then it wouldnt be as detailed

 

[EsppiraK]

Images does not load!

Oops that Photobucket bandwidth limit

Any suggestion for a good free image hosting with no bandwidth limit?

As for TTT or T4 ( even 5 I would say) the big problem is not the characters polycount, is the lighting, surfaces reflections/speculars, and some intensive alpha effects in some stages, other than that Tekken series on ps2 don't really push that many polygons, Soul calibur III and Virtua Fighter 4 on ps2 ( even downgraded from the original naomi 2 board) push way more polygons for each character than the Tekken series does.

Also background while appear "smaller" on Tekken, sometimes have more things going on them that require extra resources.

Just note that Doa 2 on ps2 has some nice (better) lighting, alpha effects and reflections absent on the Dreamcast version, even though the dreamcast version does looks better imho, essentially becuse cleaner image quality (higher res) and way better textures. So a TTT on Dreamcast would have look different than the ps2 version (sometthing similar to Doa 2 ps2-Dc), worst in some areas, better in others, one thing is sure, a DC version wouldn't be able to replicate some incredible lighting effects on TTT-T4-T5