How does LBP handle its models?

Shifty Geezer

Shifty Geezer

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Here's footage from E3 of level design : http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21598.html?type=flv

Having watched that (and how realistic does it look?!), how do you think the geometry is handled? The ability to carve models and still have it properly textured (at least, I haven't noticed any obvious texturing faults) is very cool. Could the building-block geometry be some volumetric representation with a tesselator applied? I'm guessing that props can't be carved in the same way. If so, are there any similar technologies out there doing this? It seems a perfect tool for level designers and artists, offering the most intuitive modelling system possible. Has 3D modelling progressed to something like this? Z-Brush when i last saw it just used a massive mesh, but that wouldn't be viable in a game like this where zillions of objects can appear.
 
Seems like standard constructive solid geometry/boolean ops to me, same system most 3D modelers - especially game engine - have used since their conception.

Textures coordinates should survive fine, but it looks like they're using projected textures or otherhow generated texture coordinates.
 
I agree with alt_nick..

With the bonus of having to only ever draw scene objects from a single perspective it significantly reduces boolean op processes AND greatly simplifies re-generating UVs for texture mapping..

What i'd love to know is what are the capacity limits per level?

Surely there must be a peak load of how much content you can create per level without it starting to affect performance?

However i'm sure alot can be done with dynamic data streaming on/off the HDD to increase peak load quite significantly..

The game does look like it's coming along wonderfully though.. :D
 
No doubt there's a peak, although I wonder where you're bottlenecked..rendering or physics simulation.

Scalability seemed to be a key concern for some of their rendering pipeline though - specifically scalability with the number of dynamic lights in the scene, since you'll be able to add those yourself.

I'm still curious about the occasional mention in some earlier previews about sponge as a resource toward enabling creation of objects etc. Perhaps that puts a cap on how much stuff you can create at any one time. The game is playable at E3..I'm sure SOMEONE there will try and see just how much stuff they can throw about, for fun.
 
alt_nick said:
Seems like standard constructive solid geometry/boolean ops to me.
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CSG and booleans makes sense, but how is that handled on RSX? You'd need tessellation and UV mapping. Some of the rocks in the background just have a stretched map , repeating the UV of the front face. But other objects have properly wrapped UV. Then there's the matter of complex geometry for collisions. Is a single bounding object created, or is it treated as so many squares/spheres?

Are there any other examples of similar realtime creation, or at least complex CSG with physics?
 
proengineer,euclid,catia....All of them can do it,or much more.
You create the csg model,after you tesselate,after you define the mechanical parameters.They have a good uv calculation method,but basicaly it is a low level csg design software.

Oh,and this kind of stufs eat very quickly the memory.
I did not hear any engineer who was satisfied with the memory of the machine.
 
[maven];1032343 said:
The physics are entirely 2D, which makes it a whole lot more manageable...
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This isn't quite true. Their soft physics for example seem to be modelled in 3D, but effective/critical motion of objects is constrained to a 2D plane (and I'm sure they take advantage of that constraint). To give a very simple example..the 'springy stars' were shown being springy in 3 dimensions, but a block of wood will only move in two dimensions. Similarly, the 'soft' squishy objects seem to have their squishiness modelled in 3D even though the ultimate motion of the object is constrained to a 2D plane. And there's umpteen examples of cloth fluttering and waving around in 3 dimensions.
 
[maven];1032343 said:
The physics are entirely 2D, which makes it a whole lot more manageable...
Click to expand...
As Titanio says, it doesn't seem quite so clear cut. Deformation of geometry in 3D means a 3D collision engine is needed. I don't recall any specific examples where I saw 3D deformation, but it could be that where motion for these assumed CSG blocks is 2D, collision is 3D. Probably could be simplified engines for CSG vs. CSG and the like though, which would keep most collisions dead simple.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
As Titanio says, it doesn't seem quite so clear cut. Deformation of geometry in 3D means a 3D collision engine is needed.
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3D deformation doesn't necessitate a 3D collision engine. The player's interaction is limited to a plane and so are his force vectors. 3D Deformation is still caused by forces in the xy plane: This means that objects are free of external z forces and any deformation is caused entirely by internal forces. Depending on the complexity of the physics engine (boundary conditions of the deforming objects [z-direction is always unbounded in both directions] , etc.), deformation in z direction could just be the same as in xy plane. I.e. deformation would be just a 3D visualization of an inherently 2D model.

So there's plenty of room for mathematical simplifications. Mind you, without seeing more of the game this is just speculation here. But those are the first approaches one could try.
 
I couldn't evebn begin to speculate HOW this thing works. All I can say is - from having watched the E3 video - that it works BEAUTIFULLY.

Whomever came up with this idea is a genius!

Sony's going to get so much mileage out of this thing I just know it. It'll be like line rider on steroids to see what people will come up with..

When's it going to be released? Will it be a BR or download title? I'd guess download but you never know.
Peace.
 
Rainbow Man said:
When's it going to be released? Will it be a BR or download title? I'd guess download but you never know.
Peace.
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IIRC (can't remember where from, sorry) there's a PSN beta ... uh 3rd (?) quarter, full release before christmas then a BR with "best of user content" next year. I might be wrong on the dates, but it's that sort of pattern.
 
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