First Killzone screenshot/details? So says USAToday..
- Thread starter Titanio
- Start date
i think it's pretty much impossible to hav a SS with 500 at once shown. u really have to navigate it realtime in game. this shows alot of lights
http://i18.tinypic.com/2wcpfkn.jpg
See that's the thing that bugs me...people keep talking about it but nobody has seen it so what's the point of hyping it before you've even seen any evidence of it?
Even that SS you posted don't really look much different from any other high profile game. The environmental lighting in the first shot looks pretty flat. The second shot of the 'steel factory' looks nice but doesn't seem to really require that many lights. I seet 20 lights at most. Then there is the whole 'defferred rendering' bullet point. Ok so they're using a DR algorithm....and? If it doesn't directly show superior results than a IR algorithm then what's the point? A buzzword so that fanboys could use for bragging rights?
Last edited by a moderator:
u do realize it's a shot captured when it's movingin the first pic? lights would obviously be blurred out. anyway i dont know what u r arguing about, just coz u cant c them doesnt mean they werent there. if you cant c the impressiveness of whats been shown then i guess theres no point of arguing.See that's the thing that bugs me...people keep talking about it but nobody has seen it so what's the point of hyping it before you've even seen any evidence of it?
Even that SS you posted don't really look much different from any other high profile game. The environmental lighting in the first shot looks pretty flat. The second shot of the 'steel factory' looks nice but doesn't seem to really require that many lights. I seet 20 lights at most.
Last edited by a moderator:
Umm, none of the posted screenshots show 500 dynamic lights.
I am very interested to know how you can see that this screenshot has ~500 dynamic lights, please explain it to me!
Yes but not 500 in that screenshot. <-- Ignore mixxed up your post with onathoer one! :emabarassed:
I am very interested to know how you can see that this screenshot has ~500 dynamic lights, please explain it to me!
Yes but not 500 in that screenshot. <-- Ignore mixxed up your post with onathoer one! :emabarassed:
Last edited by a moderator:
It shure has many light sources but I have not seen ~500 lightsources in either ss or videos so far. Also I am pretty shure the dev was talking about dynamic lights for a whole level.
Also was there not an interview where a GG dev said a bit morethan 100 lights rendered at the same time (link to interview is thread in tech forum if I remember it correctly).
Umm, none of the posted screenshots show 500 dynamic lights.
I am very interested to know how you can see that this screenshot has ~500 dynamic lights, please explain it to me!
Yes but not 500 in that screenshot.
Doesn't matter if it's 500 in one screenshot (and it doesnt make much sense to have so many lights in one closed scene anyways imo) - the engine (thus PS3) is capable of it, that's the point.
How many lights does a "traditional" forward render engine calculate in realtime, 5 or 10?
There are 500 lights on the entire level, noone said it's in a single scene. Wouldn't make any sense, either, especially because they also have indirect lighting.
As others have said, you can use dynamic lights for stuff like goggles, muzzle flash and explosions, which all can have a limited radius and thus they won't affect too many pixels; and they can use a lot of small lights to illuminate the level geometry and characters, as these would be quite fast with defered rendering, too. Careful observation could be enough to count number of lights per scene, though the post processing and the many small light flares in outdoor areas makes it quite difficult.
As others have said, you can use dynamic lights for stuff like goggles, muzzle flash and explosions, which all can have a limited radius and thus they won't affect too many pixels; and they can use a lot of small lights to illuminate the level geometry and characters, as these would be quite fast with defered rendering, too. Careful observation could be enough to count number of lights per scene, though the post processing and the many small light flares in outdoor areas makes it quite difficult.
That's exactly the point eg if you can't see them then what is the point of having so many lights or bringing it up in the first place other than a marketing bullet point? The game looks nice for what it is but I see zero evidence of the supposedly supeior contribution of defferred rendering and enabling of hundreds of lights. It sounds like marketing hype IMO.
Becouse a whole level has 500 dynamic lights doesn't mean it is capable of displaying all at once, thus there is no yes or no if it can do it all at once. Also becouse a engine is cappable of doing something doesn't mean the hardware can do it at acceptable framerates.
For example Stalker has GI that can be enabled, and the engine is cappable of it but the hardware is not cappable of rendering it at acceptable framerates (dunno about G80's and Quad cores).
How many lights does a "traditional" forward render engine calculate in realtime, 5 or 10?
Im shure there are many games with more than 10 lights with a forward renderer. For example my modded Oblivion has the max dynamic lights set to 20 together with a large draw distance and thus I get 20 lights often ingame. The engine is cappable and the fps is fortunately smooth!
It shure has many light sources but I have not seen ~500 lightsources in either ss or videos so far. Also I am pretty shure the dev was talking about dynamic lights for a whole level.
Also was there not an interview where a GG dev said a bit morethan 100 lights rendered at the same time (link to interview is thread in tech forum if I remember it correctly).
Laa-Yosh beat me to the puntch. If it was my quote that brought up the 500 light sources again, then I appologise. Wasn't implying that there are 500 lightssources at once and the same time - even if it's just a tenth of that at any given instance is still quite impressive.
Also, light sources aren't necessarely lights etc - but can also be triggered by bullets, glowing goggles etc.
The 500 lights of the level at the end of the day makes KillZone 2 have a very dynamic and interactive warzone. That's what impresses me most about it.
As for claiming KillZone 2 is a showcase for the console: Wasn't taking part of that discussion (as it will not lead to anything useful or constructive regardless of any what the facts may be). Leave me out of it.
I would!
It's a showcase for nextgen in general IMO. It sets a visual bar in many ways for games from this point forth. Not saying this will be the baseline for performance, but devs wishing to be the cream of the crop, will have to outdo (or at least match) this bar.
Note: there are things which other games are doing better, but the overall visual package, I'd have to say goes to KZ2 at this point.
It's clearly the best example of (sur)real-world graphics (which most use as a measuring stick for graphics ability) on ps3 at this point so saying it is or isn't a showcase for ps3 is kinda beside the point.
I hope they keep driving this thing though and continue to push forward in all aspects.
As long as the 500-light-technology allows the artists to create a convincing and beautiful war zone, I'm all for it.
The combination of weather effects (e.g., darkness, wind blur and fog) plus dynamic lights like the gun flare, multiple bullet impact marks of two dozen soldiers, lightning, flames, explosions, destructible street and vehicle lights should make an interesting sight.
But please get the gameplay right "first" ;-)
allows the artists to create a convincing and beautiful war zone, I'm all for it. The combination of weather effects (e.g., darkness, wind blur and fog) plus dynamic lights like the gun flare, multiple bullet impact marks of two dozen soldiers, lightning, flames, explosions, destructible street and vehicle lights should make an interesting sight.
But please get the gameplay right "first" ;-)
As long as the 500-light-technology
The combination of weather effects (e.g., darkness, wind blur and fog) plus dynamic lights like the gun flare, multiple bullet impact marks of two dozen soldiers, lightning, flames, explosions, destructible street and vehicle lights should make an interesting sight.
But please get the gameplay right "first" ;-)
Indeed.
It would be such a waste if the team screwed up that aspect, but I imagine they will nail it.
One thing I was just thinking of when you mentioned the weather effects etc, is I hope the utilize all the tech here not just in token one-time scenes (Gears - vehicles
). I think Halo did a good job with that in giving the player a good amount of time with X feature/ability to really enjoy the effort and time that went into it but not so much as to drag your feet (halo did that on a couple levels but overall, ace).The wind/smoke effect (if realtime) was freakin beautiful. There are quite a few more places I hope to see it used. Variety is nice, but I hope GG sets it up to let the players soak in the hard work the team has put together.
Do a closed beta
I'm up for it ... but someone would have to sponser a ps3.
Regardless, I think they will have plenty of playtesting and research to make sure the title is wrapped up nicely. Sony won't pull the trigger on this one prematurely and it looks like the team is already very close with plenty of time to polish a few things here n there.
This game with a new $300 price in 2008 will do wonders for ps3!
Ah okay, this post and the other one in the previous page explain some things. I tend to prefer colorful games and graphics-wise I didn't like Lair's and GeoW art direction for that reason -although the Vibrant graphics setting did wonders for GeoW-, except in creepy games that do the horror motif very well. I love those.
Currently, my favourite X360 game is Call of Juarez and the only generic flaw I find in this game is that some chapters take place in grey, colourless underground mines, caves and such, most of the time. It's hard to see anything.
CoJ is an amazing game, though, and Reverend Ray is one of the coolest characters in the history of videogames. I love the graphics, pure next gen beauty.
Back on KZ2, the pic ultragpu posted is the best KZ2 pic to date, imo ( http://i18.tinypic.com/2wcpfkn.jpg ), but I wouldn't expect anything better
Sigh
patsu, I haven't read those reviews son I can't comment but a 5 is a harsh score so Killzone 1 is a crappy game.
Other than that I am not hard to please and almost every game with a score of 7 or more is good, solid fun all around game for me (if I like the genre).
What might look more complex in GT4 actually simplifies things when applied to the cars and environments but PGR2 is a masterpiece with awesome graphics. Too bad photomode wasn't a feature when it came out.
Deferred Rendering is alien technology to me, bells and whistles, because I've seen many games with better graphics than Kz2. LBP, PGR4, etc.
Cheers
