First Killzone screenshot/details? So says USAToday..

[Nesh]

Well my 2 cents is it was on the mark graphically. Nothing more nothing less. Lets not forget who caused the storm in the first place, they did bring it on themselves. The CG trailer absolutly had a lot more style to it, and people have even posted a comparison of it where thats evident. The CGI looked much cleaner and certain had that cinematic quality, the realtime looked like a very average FPS, something you would basically be expecting at this point due to the bar set by other titles. I have to be honest, gameplay wise im not impressed at all. I saw not one thing unique and indeed felt like i was watching some other version of Resistance or Gears of War or (enter bastard offspring of Quake and some other FPS here). Personally i think the genre is just being beaten to death and this game looks like garbage to me from a gameplay standpoint. Saw absolutly nothing FPS havent been doing for the last few years. I dont really care how many poly counts are in their models. If they have no innovation, their game sucks. Thats my standard and im sticking to it, and personally unless you're a hardcore FPS junky who never gets tired of it, i think most gamers should indeed be asking and expecting more then hiked poly counts. Motorstom, since it was brought up yesterday, is a prime example. Its a good looking game, but a woefully hollow and down right piss poor excuse for a modern racing game (poor track variation and customization/predictable AI and mechanics) that even lacked something as simple as online. Sorry but put me down as not impressed.

They brought up what unto theirselves?

Guerilla has got lots of acclaim and huge positive impressions for their achievement. The general press is hugely impressed and feel that they get closer to the CGI video than anyone expected

All I saw was a game that met my expectations as well as of so many others that had high hopes on it.

If you read my post more clearly you will realise that the problem I am discussing isnt the CGI trailer vs Real Time but some people themselves trying to nitpick on the game's visuals. This has nothing to do with the game not being 100% faithful to the original trailer.The original CGI trailer had similar flaws and if they convinced people it was real time people would have been finding stupid details to complain about even then, although that quality is known as CGI in reality and considered today as an offline render unmatched by any real time game. This is so evident actually that I get the impression that some people are deliberately doing it.

Btw I dont know what motorstorm has to do with Killzone and neither do I see MS's CGI vs Real time case similar to Killzone's. I also feel that you dont know much about Motorstorm

 

[dantruon]

I didn't say all lightsources where static, but some are (learn to not take things out of context). And the players weapon when fired acts as a dynamic lightsource. I'll upload some images showing different places where there are static lights (hold on!).

Edit: Are you talking about indirect lighting or answering my post about static lighting?

im asking dude, since i know jack all about what you guys talking about

 

[_phil_]

I wonder if they will have the 'spare power' to do some kind of indirect lighting solution since many lightsources in the demonstration where static

what is it supposed to mean ? do you believe a lighting is static because it doesn't project a shadow ? ,what indirect lighing has to do with this ?

What you're saying sound like technobabble.

 

[Neb]

im asking dude, since i know jack all about what you guys talking about

Oh alright I see. This is what I meant with non dynamic lightsource.

One example (better seen in motion), imagehack out of bandwidth fo the others, sigh!

what is it supposed to mean ? do you believe a lighting is static because it doesn't project a shadow ? ,what indirect lighing has to do with this ?

What you're saying sound like technobabble.

Read the post I was responding to and then read the post he was responding to and let's keep calm!

 

[Terarrim]

Where is the light coming from on the bin/box (purple glow) from deutron's screen shot? and I do see that shape on the ceiling to, looks like its reflecting off helmet as you stated!

(I can see from above shot that no shadows from background light to!)

One other thing I really think that Killzone 2's direct lighting (when used) cannot really be seriously critiqued in any way, at least IMO.

The GIF that shows the animation of the ragdoll physics where the helghast corpse is flayling around depending on hit locations is superb. And what is even more impressive is that the shadow follows that flailing movement exactly. We know now why the intial screen shot looked so bad (the shadow), this was due to the fact that the shadow was not static but would have been animating as the gun flashed and the helgasht first reacted to player presence then reacted to the ragdol physics from bullet impact.

Whilest I have seen ragdol effects and hit location effects before, i have never seen it to this level of animation and never ever with the shadows following so closely to the actions of the ragdol physics!

 

[Neb]

Whilest I have seen ragdol effects and hits before, i have never seen it to this level of animation and never ever with the shadows following so closely to the actions of the ragdol physics!

Well that the shadow follows the movements correctly of the character/object is quite common in several games. :smile:

 

[archangelmorph]

Oh alright I see. This is what I meant with non dynamic lightsource.

One example (better seen in motion), imagehack out of bandwidth fo the others, sigh!

Soooooo... would you like to explain what exactly is it in this screen that leads you to believe the light source is actually static?

Just out of curiousity?

 

[LogisticX]

Oy, I don't like getting into these but anyway.

If you look at the pic he posted there are no casted shadows by the characters on the screen. You can see a light source directly at the back but there is no projection of shadow at all. I think that's what he's talking about.

Still, the game isn't near completion so we have to take these with a grain of salt.

 

[Terarrim]

Well that the shadow follows the movements correctly of the character/object is quite common in several games. :smile:

Yes Fear for one however, what I am trying to say I can't remember the animation (the flayling away) of the helgast with it also reacting to hit locations and shadows all working in such a dramatic and cinematic way (most game enemies may shuder but drop quickly, in the one sceen the helgast's body was pinned in the air by the automatic fire until the fire stoped). I cannot remember seeing anything at that quality before.

 

[Dunchan25]

Ha! PS3 real-time vs. CGI

First we heard:

2005
"It will never even come close to looking like the CGI movie! that's PS4!"

"You can't do that in real-time with PS3 hardware! The GPU, the memory, ..."

"Sony are lairs, ha ha ha"

2006

"Where's Killzone 2? See we told you it could not be done!!"

"Don't even talk about killzone 2 because Sony is so full of it"

2007 before new tailer

"now we'll just of big a phony Sony really is .."

2007 after the tailer
" "

"it's close to the quality of the CGI, but now I need to nickpick it to death becuase I can't say I was wrong"

So we are all comparing a PS3 game to a CGI movie and that suppose to be a bad thing? CGI vs. PS3! What other platform could you do this on beside PS3? Really now, give Sony and these developers the respect they should have.

 

[Tap In]

Yes Fear for one however, what I am trying to say I can't remember the animation (the flayling away) of the helgast with it also reacting to hit locations and shadows all working in such a dramatic and cinematic way (most game enemies may shuder but drop quickly, in the one sceen the helgast's body was pinned in the air by the automatic fire until the fire stoped). I cannot remember seeing anything at that quality before.

you have not seen enough recent Next Gen games in action then because most of what we're seeing here is being done now and expected for the end of 2007 and beyond from all games IMO.

KZ looks good but it's not doing anything groundbreaking compared to other games IMO. Not that it needs to either. It looks like a solid console FPs and still very early so I'm sure it will get better as a 2008 title should.

Edit:
you might be right about the shadows though... they react very naturally in the death sequences

smoke, fire and particle effects need work though IMO

 

[Neb]

So we are all comparing a PS3 game to a CGI movie and that suppose to be a bad thing? CGI vs. PS3! What other platform could you do this on beside PS3? Really now, give Sony and these developers the respect they should have.

The intro of the demonstration can be compared to the CGI, the real-time intro creates an incredbile well done illusion to make it look like the CGI (but is far away technically, but artwork FTW!). The ingame play is far off and comparing it to CGI is crazy IMO.
But the ingame play may be almost CGI quality for you, and well thats OK but then if I think in the same way then many games I have played would fall into that category aswell (+/- stuff), keep it real!

I tell you that it is ingame play that counts the most since you wont be playing real-time cutscenes. And seeing other console games both released and non-released I see KZ2 competing with them both on the technical front and the artistical front and there is no clear "winner" yet. :smile:

 

[silhouette]

I streamed the trailer yesterday and get wowed when I see it on my small laptop screen. Then, I downloaded it in full and watched it on a big-screen TV this morning. Altough, it is still excellent in terms of visual fidelity for a new-generation game (though they need to work on couple of things that many people here already pointed out), it is way behind the CGI trailer even in the cutscenes. Just to give an example, in the opening scene (which is a cut-scene), you can see slight blocky shadows, low-res textures on the ground of the ship, low-poly holdings, not-good particle effects, some rough animation, and the list can go on and on.. Do not take me wrong; there are lots of good details on that scene as well. As a game, it looks a decent FPS.. A lot of action on the scene, very good lightning/shadows, good overall animation, not a slow down, and there is still maybe a year ahead of them. However, it suffers from the same deficiencies of all other games suffer. At the end, there are limitations of these architectures. There is no way to achieve the detail they show on CGI trailer with 512 megs of ram even if you have the perfect streaming; you will have limitations on vertex count, you have limitations on amount of textures, you have limitations on shadow buffers, you won't have full GI, you won't have insane amount of AA etc etc..

As a summary, very good game with lots of novelties. All PS3 users really have something they can look forward to for the next year.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

First we heard:

2005
"It will never even come close to looking like the CGI movie! that's PS4!"

"You can't do that in real-time with PS3 hardware! The GPU, the memory, ..."

"Sony are lairs, ha ha ha"

2006

"Where's Killzone 2? See we told you it could not be done!!"

"Don't even talk about killzone 2 because Sony is so full of it"

2007 before new tailer

"now we'll just of big a phony Sony really is .."

2007 after the tailer
" "

"it's close to the quality of the CGI, but now I need to nickpick it to death becuase I can't say I was wrong"

So we are all comparing a PS3 game to a CGI movie and that suppose to be a bad thing? CGI vs. PS3! What other platform could you do this on beside PS3? Really now, give Sony and these developers the respect they should have.

I think your not understanding this correctly, the people aren't wrong.

E3 2005 Killzone 2 CGI cannot be done on the PS3. Not by a longshot. You can with artwork achieve something close to that, but no way in hell you can do the same rendering techniques applied to the trailer in realtime on a PS3.

KZ2 looks great and all that, its still lightyears away from the CGI technically speaking.

 

[Konrad]

Killzone

I think they did a pretty good job. I think I'ts the best looking Console game ever, and its in pre-pre-alpha ( I guess its more close to alpha than Guerilla would like to admit). Clearly there are many bugs, Strange A.I, missing shadows all sort of things that I am sure that Guerilla are aware of and that will be fixed. Considering its alpha quality its damn good no matter if its close to the 2005 trailer or not. Looks like it has some insane intense game play and thats what I want.

Created that "I want it now" -feeling for me. :smile:

 

[NERO]

I think the game looks absolutely fantastic but I am in some agreement with the Tap Ins and Sugarcoats of the world. I want a pretty fps like most, but need innovation or gimmics of such magnitude that they can change the genre. Thus far KZ2 looks like it will be a fine work of art and appeaser of tech fetishistas but I don't know if it will change anything (or at least there hasn't been news of a gimmick). Either way I am impressed that Guerilla has accomplished their first goal - to make a game that is good-enough looking to appease those irrational enough to believe the 05 trailer. I await Bioshock and Portal as my genre transcendants.

 

[pakotlar]

I think they did a pretty good job. I think I'ts the best looking Console game ever, and its in pre-pre-alpha ( I guess its more close to alpha than Guerilla would like to admit). Clearly there are many bugs, Strange A.I, missing shadows all sort of things that I am sure that Guerilla are aware of and that will be fixed. Considering its alpha quality its damn good no matter if its close to the 2005 trailer or not. Looks like it has some insane intense game play and thats what I want.

Created that "I want it now" -feeling for me. :smile:

I think it looks great right now, but to my eyes gears looked better, at least at this stage, so I wouldn't call it the best looking ever. Obviously if this game is coming out in a year there is a good chance it will improve.

 

[Dunchan25]

I think your not understanding this correctly, the people aren't wrong.

E3 2005 Killzone 2 CGI cannot be done on the PS3. Not by a longshot. You can with artwork achieve something close to that, but no way in hell you can do the same rendering techniques applied to the trailer in realtime on a PS3.

KZ2 looks great and all that, its still lightyears away from the CGI technically speaking.

Well it still early. however, my point is look of far Sony came. From being called liars to it's close to CGI! I know CGI look better. However, this game and others have graphics that are way better than what was capable with CGI a few years ago. I'm not expecting Transformers the movie out of PS3 but this stuff we're getting from PS3 is out of this world!!!

Truly Next Gen Gaming!

 

[archangelmorph]

Oy, I don't like getting into these but anyway.

If you look at the pic he posted there are no casted shadows by the characters on the screen. You can see a light source directly at the back but there is no projection of shadow at all. I think that's what he's talking about.

Still, the game isn't near completion so we have to take these with a grain of salt.

dynamic lights and shadowing tend to be seperable in near enough every engine i've come across..

It seems to me that the reason character shadow's aren't being cast (of which they do from the muzzle flashes) is for performance reasons within the demonstration..

With so many lights in the scene they probably turned off character shadow casting for the purpose of keepnig the framerate up in the demo.. Remeber the game is still very early..

I guess what i'm trying to say is that just because character shadow's aren't cast doesn't mean the light sources aren't dynamic..

 

[valioso]

Well it still early. however, my point is look of far Sony came. From being called liars to it's close to CGI! I know CGI look better. However, this game and others have graphics that are way better than what was capable with CGI a few years ago. I'm not expecting Transformers the movie out of PS3 but this stuff we're getting from PS3 is out of this world!!!

Truly Next Gen Gaming!

i think the issue is the tried to pass the CGI as real time... and lay off the sugar with the "out of this world" I don't think is that much better than stuff like COD4 or Gears or Unreal Tourney.