Japanese Developers Changing Horses?
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Not E3, at TGS in September
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
E3 isnt so much a place where you can win things. In the end only a relative small amount of the people who actually end up buying games follow E3 (and game news in general). We all know what sony problem is, atleast in the west, and thats the price. In Japan, I dont know but it seems the majority of people over there cares more for something ''new'' than another console only improving in power. Some RPG's could help them, but SE already said they wont release anything before april 2008 so that might as well be to little to late too for ps3.
But wasnt that golf pack coming out in Japan next week? that was supposed to cost only 300 euro's so we'll see if that helps.
But wasnt that golf pack coming out in Japan next week? that was supposed to cost only 300 euro's so we'll see if that helps.
I don't think it's that easy. I think Japan's tastes have shifted, and a traditional game box no longer appeals so much. They want that 'touch' experience. If that's what they want, you can't do much about it, other than try to get lots of appealing games. It's like GM trying to sell huge gas guzzlers to a country that likes small, efficient cars. No matter how GM prices the cars, they won't be bought because the market doesn't want it. Unless Sony can turn PS3 into a 'touch generation' machine, which may be possible with excellent PS3ye and motion games but will be a Herculean effort, price may be irrelevant. A PS3 cheaper than Wii would be outsold at the moment, I think. If you don't poke it, prod it, draw it or shake it, the Japanese market isn't very enthusiastic.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
I think thats partially true, but I dont believe that millions of gamers that first liked RPG's now only like the smaller handheldish games. The problem for sony is that they never though that those games would become populair and their machine obviously isnt aimed at that with the price and all so they really need those RPGs and stuff to pull those type of gamers in which I think there are still plenty off.
In a way it's a good thing. If the devs are now concentrating only on triple A titles for the PS3 it means a raft of top notch titles, and none of the usual non-descript stuff fills the gaps between titles.
Eventually though the Wii will run out of steam when compared to both the PS3 and the 360 (graphically for one) and as innovative as the controller is there's only a finite number of uses for it.
At the moment it's a sure fire cash cow though so it would make good sense to switch.
Eventually though the Wii will run out of steam when compared to both the PS3 and the 360 (graphically for one) and as innovative as the controller is there's only a finite number of uses for it.
At the moment it's a sure fire cash cow though so it would make good sense to switch.
That is actually true of XB360 controllers too. The difference, which you probably were thinking of but didn't put to screen, is that the greater power of the PS360 should allow more in the long run than a new controller. eg. The water physics of a couple of upcoming titles demonstrate that, as does LucasArts use of DMM. In 3 years time, PS360 may be showing new games, or at least existing games with new twists, where Wii is continuing existing game types only with a now commonplace wiggle-stick control.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
I never understand why the Wii should run out of steam early. Lets forget the gap in power for a moment and assume that isnt the main reason a console sells. Yes the wiimote will become standard at a point. But so do gfx. Gfx maybe become standard even earlier looking at how games like crysis already look as good, or better as what ps3 and x360 showed up untill now (what ofcourse will improve, just as the pc gfx). So why would the ps3 and x360 keep running longer because of their not better gfx than the pc, and the wii will run out of steam with a feature that is unique to every other platform? If there is one platform which should be able to keep running longer it is the wii because its not relying on power but on something that cant be offerd by power.
Power isn't about graphics. Take for example Harry Potter. Wii allows you to wave the wand. Awesome. In 3 years' time, a different magic game will involve the same wand waving. On PS3 say, HP has you wave the wand with a thumbstick. In 3 years' time, the same interface mechanics will be in play, but rather than being stuck moving furniture or ragdolls around, you'll be able to summon some liquid beings and control them, having them react to the environment. Or in the case of Madden, Wii will let you throw the passes for a totally new game experience now. And then next year, the same. And the year after that, and after that. Whereas on XB360, advanced animation techniques will allow better character control and more realism, which is a primary part of the football games.
That's the idea anyhow. Wii will allow a new interface to somewhat last-gen game engines. What you'll be able to do in game will be limited by horsepower. It maybe be easier to do through an more intuitive interface, but the richness of the world will be very limited compared to what other platforms are doing. PS360 will have the same controls as last gen, but allow more stuff. Like PC (and Amiga) gaming over the years. Back in 1990, earlier even, look what a mouse enabled. That same control interface has worked for Lemmings, Populous, Doom, WOW, etc. Games have become more advanced and involving, with the same control interface. If processing power had stuck with the Amiga and we'd added motion controls and camera controls, the complexity of games will still be the same as then. No Oblivion or Forza or Halo or Tekken or MGS. We'd have Lemming where we move things with our hands, and Sim City where we place buildings with our hands (but no SIMS as the processing power isn't there). And if you've already played Lemmings since 1990 with a mouse, and it's barely different from then, it's not going to appeal 17 years later.
Obviously Wii is enabling far more than that in that it is enabling new games, in the same way introducing the mouse did. But those new games that are new because of motion control will lose their appeal when motion control becomes old, and then where will the appeal come from? Super Jedi Combat will be great when you get to wave a lightsabre around for 'real'. Super Jedi Combat 3 won't have the same appeal. Then you're down to the devs adding game features on top of the first to make it better, and that's more likely to happen when they have more leg-room.
There is nothing Sony can do about Wii and DS in Japan. Nothing.
The tastes in that market have shifted entirely. They will have to either adapt to those tastes with their next products or insitigate the shift back to their paradigm.
Non-game saturation will occur and people will again prefer deeper experiences and cutting-edge technology, how long that takes no one knows but it is likely to happen in my opinion. The market is cyclic.
I even play on our Wii more than our PS3 (GT:HD only), I dont have the time or real desire for the bigger gaming experiences right now. I know that it will change for me again this November.
The tastes in that market have shifted entirely. They will have to either adapt to those tastes with their next products or insitigate the shift back to their paradigm.
Non-game saturation will occur and people will again prefer deeper experiences and cutting-edge technology, how long that takes no one knows but it is likely to happen in my opinion. The market is cyclic.
I even play on our Wii more than our PS3 (GT:HD only), I dont have the time or real desire for the bigger gaming experiences right now. I know that it will change for me again this November.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
@shifty
What im trying to say is that im not sure if those liqued beings in HP will be what the player preffers above actually being able to perform magic like HP does. Same goes for every other game. You say how wii controlls in the end become standard, well its exactly the same with gfx imo. In 3 years time nobody will be suprised by x360 and ps3 gfx anymore and the more hardcore will probably already be looking to the next thing as ps3 and x360 will already look outdated to what pc can do. So in the end it all boils down to the same. Wii controlls will become default for the wii, and x360 and ps3 will become default and nobody will be drooling over the gfx anymore. What is important however is what the player will be enjoying more. Is that the gfx, or the controller? Because x360 and ps3 focus on power so much they will become outdated once something better comes along. Wii, because its basically already outdated, nobody will be bother by the old hardware. But the controller will allow for alot more stretch regarding new things than the increase in power in the ps3 and x360 will. over time we'll see what the player preffers.
You are looking back to far. Even wii with its old hardware allows for pretty detailed and rich games (look at TP, and thats just a gc game). Its just that ps3 and x360 can do it (alot) better. So its not about 2 color machines vs powerfull 3d machines. But pretty detailed 3d vs even more detailed 3d.
Agree. However here again goes the same thing for gfx, physics or whatever. For the sake of argument lets assume ps3 in the end can do everything 2 times better than it can now. How much impact will that really have on lets say motorstorm 3? Not a whole lot. Everything because standard once you get used to it. What is important is how enjoyable that standard feature becomes and in my opinion I think going back from very good wii controlls to the first wii controlls, or even gamepad (depending on the game ofcourse) will have alot bigger impact that motorstorm 3 going back to motorstorm 1.
What im trying to say is that im not sure if those liqued beings in HP will be what the player preffers above actually being able to perform magic like HP does. Same goes for every other game. You say how wii controlls in the end become standard, well its exactly the same with gfx imo. In 3 years time nobody will be suprised by x360 and ps3 gfx anymore and the more hardcore will probably already be looking to the next thing as ps3 and x360 will already look outdated to what pc can do. So in the end it all boils down to the same. Wii controlls will become default for the wii, and x360 and ps3 will become default and nobody will be drooling over the gfx anymore. What is important however is what the player will be enjoying more. Is that the gfx, or the controller? Because x360 and ps3 focus on power so much they will become outdated once something better comes along. Wii, because its basically already outdated, nobody will be bother by the old hardware. But the controller will allow for alot more stretch regarding new things than the increase in power in the ps3 and x360 will. over time we'll see what the player preffers.
You are looking back to far. Even wii with its old hardware allows for pretty detailed and rich games (look at TP, and thats just a gc game). Its just that ps3 and x360 can do it (alot) better. So its not about 2 color machines vs powerfull 3d machines. But pretty detailed 3d vs even more detailed 3d.
Agree. However here again goes the same thing for gfx, physics or whatever. For the sake of argument lets assume ps3 in the end can do everything 2 times better than it can now. How much impact will that really have on lets say motorstorm 3? Not a whole lot. Everything because standard once you get used to it. What is important is how enjoyable that standard feature becomes and in my opinion I think going back from very good wii controlls to the first wii controlls, or even gamepad (depending on the game ofcourse) will have alot bigger impact that motorstorm 3 going back to motorstorm 1.
DeadlyNinja
Veteran
All I can say is that I have yet to see a video game system pick up steam and lose a few years down the line due to weaker hardware and outdated graphics. The original Gameboy out lasted the GameGear and that didn't stop it from beating the GG. The GG had a bigger screen and color. Same deal with 3DO and Jaguar.
And without those filler titles, you end with a Gamecube : a couple intense, genre-defining experiences separated by months of dust-gathering drought. All those licensed games, generic sport titles, party games... are what made the PS1 and PS2 such successes with casual gamers. The lack of such titles on PS3 coupled with the pricing pretty much relegates it to the niche hardcore market. BTW, in Japan, the PS3 is already trailing behind the Cube sales-wise... Without a steady flow of titles, the Japanese market is also very prone to buying and reselling consoles and games (that happened with the Cube, and recently with Blue Dragon on the 360).
Denial : it's not just a river in Egypt.
For the general public, graphics (and more generally power) seriously don't matter when compared to interactivity. I don't think the gap will become much larger than Gears of War compared to Wii Sports, and we have seen the response to that by the public at large already...This idea that the Wii will run out of steam is ridiculous, especially in the light of many publishers starting serious development on it. If publishers move their development efforts from PS3/360 toward Wii (which is happening right now), the PS3 and 360 will be the machines running out of steam, not the Wii. And the gamers, both casuals and hardcore, will go where the games are, although hardcore gamers may grumble a bit along the way.
Inquisitive_Idiot
Regular
Really? What major titles are coming out for the Wii in the next six months not produced by Nintendo, in fact what major titles does the Wii currently have? The only third party games being released for the Wii are shovel ware and that does not look like its going to change anytime soon. Games like Ghost Recon, Splinter Cell, Halo, Mass Effect, Bioshock, GTA, etc are all not possible on Wii and it does not look like developers are moving their serious titles over to the Wii. I think the Wii has great mass market appeal through its control scheme and price, but beyond that it has nothing to satisfy enthusiasts / traditional gamers for which there will always be a market.
Nintendo is sly. The Wii is a repackaged Gamecube with a little bit more speed and a new controller that's motion conrolled and different from the rest of the pack. When buying a Wii one is buying this new interface and playing most of the games in a new style. So far its been a success. I see no reason that shouldn't continue to happen. It's simple, easy to use and offers a bit more interactivity on a physical level. In a way the controller does allow focus on gameplay moreso than just admiring pretty graphics (which needs artists!).
I see Nintendo in the future, and I see this new controller system in a future console. I see this console still being pretty cheap to make, and at a profit, but much more powerful than what the Wii currently is and even more powerful than 360 and PS3. Three - four years time of technology improvement will do that. At this time Nintendo's name is back in the minds of millions of gamers as the system of choice. Now the new system will have the Wii controller and powerful hardware to boot. Profit!
The problem with Sony in Japan is that they're stale and old. Sony itself seems stagnant in terms of games and systems. It's offering new features while booting the price to a place in the sky that's unacceptable for the mainstream. And with Nintendo dominating in Japan, and Microsoft doing a decent job with the 360 in the western front it isn't looking so good for Sony.
Nintendo just impresses me. They take something that a lot of us thought was a neat gimmick at most and turned it into an experience that's different than what can be had on the other machines.
I see Nintendo in the future, and I see this new controller system in a future console. I see this console still being pretty cheap to make, and at a profit, but much more powerful than what the Wii currently is and even more powerful than 360 and PS3. Three - four years time of technology improvement will do that. At this time Nintendo's name is back in the minds of millions of gamers as the system of choice. Now the new system will have the Wii controller and powerful hardware to boot. Profit!
The problem with Sony in Japan is that they're stale and old. Sony itself seems stagnant in terms of games and systems. It's offering new features while booting the price to a place in the sky that's unacceptable for the mainstream. And with Nintendo dominating in Japan, and Microsoft doing a decent job with the 360 in the western front it isn't looking so good for Sony.
Nintendo just impresses me. They take something that a lot of us thought was a neat gimmick at most and turned it into an experience that's different than what can be had on the other machines.
That's not a very good example at all, considering the GG weighed a metric tonne and lasted about 20 minutes on battery power...
It's really an obvious choice for the developers in Japan. The Japanese gaming eco system is quite unique. As we've often seen, the Japanese genre doesn't translate to the west and europe well. The oppsoite is quite true also.
Aside from the slow shifting of Japanese developers catering to the western style of games, Japan is very self contained. Within that you can clearly see the Nintendo domination. Not only are PS3 hardware sales low but the attach rate is suffering greatly. Even what people assumed were system sellers aren't doing well, NGS and Folklore being the latest examples.
Development houses don't have infinite funds thus they must adapt to their market. For Japanese developers that market IS Ninentdo.
Now I keep hearing about how the "wii wont' have long legs." This is rather irrevelant due to the aforementioned adaption. If 2 years from now the Wii and the PS3 swap sales figures, the focus will shift to the PS3. As developer you have to see the obvious writing on the wall for the near future. There's no pride is closing your doors. They're shifting to the Wii because that's where the money is.
Aside from the slow shifting of Japanese developers catering to the western style of games, Japan is very self contained. Within that you can clearly see the Nintendo domination. Not only are PS3 hardware sales low but the attach rate is suffering greatly. Even what people assumed were system sellers aren't doing well, NGS and Folklore being the latest examples.
Development houses don't have infinite funds thus they must adapt to their market. For Japanese developers that market IS Ninentdo.
Now I keep hearing about how the "wii wont' have long legs." This is rather irrevelant due to the aforementioned adaption. If 2 years from now the Wii and the PS3 swap sales figures, the focus will shift to the PS3. As developer you have to see the obvious writing on the wall for the near future. There's no pride is closing your doors. They're shifting to the Wii because that's where the money is.
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