360: VF5 Playable Preview

[archangelmorph]

I think it's possible for a number of reasons, 360 seems to be a better balanced system overall with fewer bottlenecks,

Not sure if that's entirely true.. The 360 has it's fair share of bottlenecks too however they just aren't so immediately apparent when employing conventional coding practices in development.. Unfortunately with the PS3 you can't apply conventional coding practices (or you can but very sub-optimally) becuase the system isn't designed to be used that way (even though it can be).. therefore your going to meet these more of these bottlenecks everytime if you go into PS3 development with the idea that you can use what you know and expect to see good performance out of it..

it's development tools are superior,

That's actually bollocks.. May have been true initially but it sure as hell isn't true anymore..

it has more memory,

Bollocks again.. How does 512MB vs 256+256MB = one has more memory?

and it should be the lead platform for the majority of multiplatform titles because of install base and dev tools.

See my post in the "The Darkness?" thread..

 

[AlNom]

Bollocks again.. How does 512MB vs 256+256MB = one has more memory?

Perhaps not in logical space, but it would be for the same reasons why a 20GB hard drive is better to have than two non-identical 10GB drives (for storage). That is, with any of your hard drives, have you ever reached 0 bytes exactly or anywhere near it? There's bound to be wasted space as you may not be able to have one file span both drives. It's probably not as huge a deal on consoles though. So that leaves the OS, to which scooby is more likely referring.

 

[inefficient]

Perhaps not in logical space, but it would be for the same reasons why a 20GB hard drive is better to have than two non-identical 10GB drives (for storage). That is, with any of your hard drives, have you ever reached 0 bytes exactly or anywhere near it? There's bound to be wasted space as you may not be able to have one file span both drives. It's probably not as huge a deal on consoles though. So that leaves the OS, to which scooby is more likely referring.

Once you go RAID 0, you don't look back!


Anyway, the 360 has 2 pools of memory as well - 10MB and 512MB. It's this split that is causing more than a handful of devs to pull their hair out.

Taming 256XDR+256DDR should be a cakewalk in comparison.

 

[AlNom]

Once you go RAID 0, you don't look back!
...

Ya, I don't think it's a severe problem given time to tailor the content to the platform, a sacrifice here or there to get things efficiently packed in.

But ya, last I recall, the PS3's OS reserves more memory than the 360 (64MB difference?). That may change/improve in the future, but it wouldn't be a sure bet for developers to consider right now.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Anyway, the 360 has 2 pools of memory as well - 10MB and 512MB. It's this split that is causing more than a handful of devs to pull their hair out.

In terms of resourse/asset allocation/storage there is only a single 512MB pool. The EDRAM is dedicated to a single function and not general "RAM" so not something devs worry about in this reqpect (although it does help to alleviate system RAM from some storage requirements).

 

[swanlee]

How many multi platform games have to look and run better on the 360 before people realize in real world game scenarios the 360 is either equal to or better than the PS3 as a game console?

 

[djskribbles]

its not a matter of how many, but rather how they compare after a certain time (say, a year) imho.

 

[Vic]

How many multi platform games have to look and run better on the 360 before people realize in real world game scenarios the 360 is either equal to or better than the PS3 as a game console?

When the 360 is the lead platform? Surely that isnt relevant if the PS3 version hasnt been optimized?

I mean Motorstorm exceeds GOW in places, so it would easy to draw the opposite conclusion as far as exclusive games.

 

[Dr. Nick]

The only thing we can gather is that the difference probably won't be as massive as some have made it out to be but we will have to wait and see what happens when devs truly start understand the PS3. I'm more concerned about the fact that some companies make sound like they have already mastered the 360 when most games don't look as good as GOW and GOW was made using a middleware solution by the middleware creators of course but still middleware.

 

[Vic]

The only thing we can gather is that the difference probably won't be as massive as some have made it out to be but we will have to wait and see what happens when devs truly start understand the PS3. I'm more concerned about the fact that some companies make sound like they have already mastered the 360 when most games don't look as good as GOW and GOW was made using a middleware solution by the middleware creators of course but still middleware.

Some people wont like me saying it, but in Edge magazine a couple of months ago, they were suggesting (but not mentioning names) that developers were claiming that 360 had nothing offer above and beyond Gears. Take it for whats it worth.

 

[Tap In]

Some people wont like me saying it, but in Edge magazine a couple of months ago, they were suggesting (but not mentioning names) that developers were claiming that 360 had nothing offer above and beyond Gears. Take it for whats it worth.

Some people only hope that to be true. Unreal Tournament 3 has already surpassed Gears visuals on 360.

 

[Vic]

Unreal Tournament 3 has already surpassed Gears visuals on 360.

Looks about the same to me so far. Very nice, but not spectacular.

 

[Tap In]

Looks about the same to me so far. Very nice, but not spectacular.

not according to previews by people who have seen it ... they say it surpasses Gears (read a recent quote in OXM last week in fact)

 

[22psi]

When the 360 is the lead platform? Surely that isnt relevant if the PS3 version hasnt been optimized?

I mean Motorstorm exceeds GOW in places, so it would easy to draw the opposite conclusion as far as exclusive games.

The Darkness used the PS3 as the lead platform and the 360 is a tad better.

Isn't the PS3 the lead sku for Dirt as well?

 

[archangelmorph]

The Darkness used the PS3 as the lead platform and the 360 is a tad better.

Isn't the PS3 the lead sku for Dirt as well?

Who started the spread of all this bullsh**?

I've been in three threads so far with people talking about "lead platforms" for multi-platform developed games like they know what they are talking about..

Who ever it was needs to reveal themselves and explain where they got such wildly conjectural ideas from?

 

[aselto]

Some people wont like me saying it, but in Edge magazine a couple of months ago, they were suggesting (but not mentioning names) that developers were claiming that 360 had nothing offer above and beyond Gears. Take it for whats it worth.

Gears of War producer was asked abou that by IGN and he answered that 360 has yet a long way to go. Xbox 1 which was much more straightforward system didn't peak until 4th year of lifecycle and 360 would peak in 1st year? Interesting.

 

[Vic]

Gears of War producer was asked abou that by IGN and he answered that 360 has yet a long way to go. Xbox 1 which was much more straightforward system didn't peak until 4th year of lifecycle and 360 would peak in 1st year? Interesting.

Well its what developers have apparently told Edge magazine, although its obvious that 360 owners wouldnt want this to be the case.

 

[warb]

Well its what developers have apparently told Edge magazine, although its obvious that 360 owners wouldnt want this to be the case.

Is this what you're refering to?

Since Epic is working with the PS3 hardware and the Xbox 360 hardware could Gears of War ever work on the Playstation 3? “256 MB of RAM makes a huge difference. There is no way we could ever do Gears of War on 256, we had trouble fitting everything on 512MB. We pushed the 360 to the limits.â€￾ Another member from Epic’s team chimed in with the fact that there are currently more Playstation 3 programmers than Xbox 360 programmers. “It (the PS3) is in our future. We always had plans for the Playstation 3 and an engine already runs on it.â€￾

That doesn't even make any sense since the PS3 also has 512MB of ram. They were just talking up the game.

 

[tha_con]

The Darkness used the PS3 as the lead platform and the 360 is a tad better.

Isn't the PS3 the lead sku for Dirt as well?

I'm pretty sure neither of those titles had PS3 as a lead platform, and were developed to BE multiplatform from the very start.

It's very easy to develop a title for BOTH platforms if you have them BOTH in mind while developing them. Very DIFFICULT to do it if you try to port AFTER the fact (as has been the case thus far with PS3 ports).

Seriously, I do not understand why people still cannot get a grasp on that concept (especially on this forum).

 

[tha_con]

Is this what you're refering to?

That doesn't even make any sense since the PS3 also has 512MB of ram. They were just talking up the game.

Sorry for the double post.

It seems to me they are speaking specifically about GPU memory on the PS3, since it's seperated, where as the 360 has unified memory, and I assume a large portion of that 512 was used for texture work alone.

Though, it is very easy, from what I have heard, to have the RSX access the GPU and System memory, the only bottle neck is having the CPU access the GPU memory. At least that's what I understood.