Rings of Red

[Platon]

Yep that's where I'm getting at. It's against the Finnish law to remove the warranty from a product if it changes ownership during the warranty period. Two year warranty is two year warranty no matter what. (unless the unit is abused etc.)

I haven't heard any other company dishonouring that law in Finland so far.

edit: For example if you buy a 6 month old car, you don't lose the manufacturers warranty, eventhough the company makes no extra money out of you.

Exactly, the warrany is on the product not the person owning it. I don't get why it should be that hard, especially as big companies as MS, to honour warranties and such that are set by law. It can't really be a surpize to them, two years are two years, no ifs and buts about it, they should know that before they start selling the product. If you think that your product is of such inferior quality that you don't think it will last two years maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be selling it in the first place.

And bying extra warranties and stuff feel like a scam to. I had done that for the first xbox and after 4-5 years it broke. First it was a pain to find out who is responsible and sould take the unit in, MS or the store, and when that was clarified it was sent a letter to me by the insurance company saying that due to the age of the unit they will provide with a new one for 800sek and at that time a new one in the stores cost like 1000sek, I was soo pissed.

Isn't the extra warrany all about getting a new one no questions asked, apparently not, I guess that is in all that fine print the store clerk will never tell you about, when they want to sell you an extra warranty. The whole bussiness sucks.

Currently I live in Finland and I got my 360 here as well, I just hope it does not break down, not speaking a word of Finnish I just can't imagine my self on the phone or speaking to store clerks about it and trying to figure out who does what, knock on wood...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Exactly, the warrany is on the product not the person owning it. I don't get why it should be that hard, especially as big companies as MS, to honour warranties and such that are set by law. It can't really be a surpize to them, two years are two years, no ifs and buts about it, they should know that before they start selling the product.

They might well know the law, but if they think they can get away wtih it, they'll try! It's like the penalty bank charges in the UK. By law banks aren't allowed to charge penalty charges for going overdrawn and the like. All they can charge is a 'fair' administration cost, which has no official value set but is pegged around £8 if you're feeling generous. Despite this, banks continued to charge unlawful penalty fees after that law was passed. Now it's come around to bite them in the butt! People are claiming their money back. First they write to the banks and tell them to give a refund. The banks fob them off with feeble excuses, deliberately flouting the law. Then the Financial Ombudsman is approached and they run the risk of serious fines, so cough up. A real-world example - my sis paid £170 in penalty fees to a bank; asked for it back; got fobbed off; contacted the FO who contacted the bank; the bank settles out of court for over a grand!

The main reason to flout the law is because it's down to the individual to get the company to operate within the law's limits, unless the government gets off it's lazy behind to do something about it. These banks know that a lot of people don't know the charges are unlawful. They also know that when these people complain, a lot can be successfully fobbed off. It's profitable to cheat. However, when consumer momentum gets going, with TV shows and public knowledge spreading, that's when they get caught out.

In this case it's quite possible MS know they're acting unlawfully (stupid company if they don't know the laws of the land they operate in!) but have decided in most cases consumers won't know their rights, or won't go through the hassle of enforcing them. Yes, the laws are there and give consumers inalienable rights, but it's not like any company will willingly cooperate. Like most laws. They're existence doesn't guarentee compliance. Making it illegal to ride bikes on the pavement doesn't mean from that day forth, you'll never see a cyclist on the pavement. It just means if someone wants to put a stop to it, they have a legal course to do so, but it'll take all the time and effort that requires.

 

[infinity4]

they are already trying to get away from the fact that there is no protection whatsoever to prevent discs from getting scratched. people have already proven that dvd drives are at fault for discs getting scratched, yet microsoft keeps blaming on you for no apparent reason (unless you move ur console or ur console is not 100% perpendicular)

 

[knitecrow]

Excellent article drom GI biz in my opinion. I, for one, will certainly not go thru the hassle of owning a 360 until reliability is fixed.

I cannot speak of anyone else, but I had to recently send my xbox 360 in for repair (defective drive) and was very happy with customer service. They replaced my xbox 360 and gave me one month free live service. Turn around time after i sent the unit in was a week. I have gone through warranty for other computer parts and it was by far a better experience. Weather customer service sucks in other regions or has sucked in the past, i cannot say.

Without hard numbers, i don't know how anyone can make reliability claims. The whole piece read like a rant.

 

[Tap In]

they are already trying to get away from the fact that there is no protection whatsoever to prevent discs from getting scratched.

not this again

as for the writer of the Rant piece posted in the OP.... buy an in store warranty.
MS has already taken HUGE strides in fixing people's problems including pumping their original 3 mo warranty up to 1 year and being quite accommodating to people with issues.


for you Euros with your fancy, dancy built in 2 year warranties... enjoy it and go play some games.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

they are already trying to get away from the fact that there is no protection whatsoever to prevent discs from getting scratched. people have already proven that dvd drives are at fault for discs getting scratched, yet microsoft keeps blaming on you for no apparent reason (unless you move ur console or ur console is not 100% perpendicular)

Really, there is decisive proof that the dvd drives are scratching the discs without the interaction of human stupidity?

 

[infinity4]

Really, there is decisive proof that the dvd drives are scratching the discs without the interaction of human stupidity?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYkaXv8RU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dQSNmpXdIfQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=513I87Evjuw&mode=related&search=

 

[Tap In]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYkaXv8RU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dQSNmpXdIfQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=513I87Evjuw&mode=related&search=

oh please...

that's called yellow journalism

 

[pipo]

A Dutch site did a test which pointed to differences on the laser between the 360 (TSST) drive and its PC equivalent as the possible source for the problem.

You can see the 360 version (left) doesn't have the four protection pads...

These guys couldn't reproduce the problem unless they really abused the system though.

http://www.hardware.info/nl-NL/articles/amdnY2pwZGia/Krassende_XBOX_360/5

 

[Tap In]

These guys couldn't reproduce the problem unless they really abused the system though.

exactly

 

[Cheezdoodles]

The most interesting thing tho, is that BOL claimed only 1% of their customers had a problem with the X360 in that video. Thats a tad on the low side

 

[PatrickL]

I cannot speak of anyone else, but I had to recently send my xbox 360 in for repair (defective drive) and was very happy with customer service. They replaced my xbox 360 and gave me one month free live service. Turn around time after i sent the unit in was a week. I have gone through warranty for other computer parts and it was by far a better experience. Weather customer service sucks in other regions or has sucked in the past, i cannot say.

Without hard numbers, i don't know how anyone can make reliability claims. The whole piece read like a rant.

While it is nice for you to have a pleasant experience, the problem is I have better thing to do than deal with a customer service in the first place. When I buy something I expect that it will work for years before any problem. And usually it works like that.

 

[homy]

oh please...

that's called yellow journalism

care to explain?

 

[Tap In]

While it is nice for you to have a pleasant experience, the problem is I have better thing to do than deal with a customer service in the first place. When I buy something I expect that it will work for years before any problem. And usually it works like that.

please...

I remember having to turn my PS1 upside down to get it to work... cutting edge electronics have issues... it's a fact. Even my new Samsung HDTV was a risk. I know that going in so I bought the extended warranty... big deal.

the console market is more or less turned upside down in the past two years with Nintendo on top MS in the middle and Sony on the bottom. the 360 failure rate is simply being flogged to death by people who do not like the new trend in an effort to put FEAR (FUD) into purchasers hoping to reverse the 80,000 - 170,000 sales numbers. (this thread and all the other "360's are failing" threads that pop up on this forum every other week, as an example)

With the proper support and warranties, you are covered by any purchase to a reasonable degree. the key factor to me is ... if my system failed and it was out of warranty... I'd buy a NEW one to keep playing the games I love as have/will many others and as I did when I bought two new PS1's when they each failed.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

care to explain?

Yellow journalism is journalism with complete disregard for ethics and proffesionalism, and largely lives on sensationalism and scandal-mongering.

 

[homy]

please...

I remember having to turn my PS1 upside down to get it to work... cutting edge electronics have issues... it's a fact. Even my new Samsung HDTV was a risk. I know that going in so I bought the extended warranty... big deal.

the console market is more or less turned upside down in the past two years with Nintendo on top MS in the middle and Sony on the bottom. the 360 failure rate is simply being flogged to death (this thread as an example) by people who do not like the new trend in an effort to put FEAR into purchasers hoping to reverse the 80,000 - 170,000 sales numbers.

With the proper support and warranties, you are covered by any purchase to a reasonable degree. the key factor to me is ... if my system failed... I'd buy a NEW one to keep playing the games I love as have/will many others and as I did when I bought two new PS1's when they each failed.

The problem is widespread. It is not isolated. If MS is really care about their customers they better fix it. The red ring of death still exists more than one and a half year after release. I owned the PS1 system since first released and didn't hear about the scratching problem.
You didn't explain why their tests are yellow journalism.

 

[homy]

Yellow journalism is journalism with complete disregard for ethics and proffesionalism, and largely lives on sensationalism and scandal-mongering.

I know that. I wanted him to explain why he thinks so.

 

[Todd33]

Disc replacement for MS games ($20):

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox360/gameplay/discreplacement-program.htm



People who don't like these threads should help them slip off the page by not bumping them. Fighting negativism with dismissal or spin is just the Fox News way of of being fair and balanced.

Just add $50 for an ESP to the cost of a 360 or roll the dice and take your chances. I buy an ESP for all my consoles and will do so with my next TV due to a recent experience.

 

[homy]

I think some people are really spinning things.
Like saying yellow journalism without explaining.
MS only replaces the discs if MS publishes the games.

 

[Tap In]

Just add $50 for an ESP to the cost of a 360 or roll the dice and take your chances. I buy an ESP for all my consoles and will do so with my next TV due to a recent experience.

exactly

woops... bumped it again.

FUD is what it is though... sure they had a higher failure rate of launch units than Wii or PS3, that has been acknowledged and warranties/customer service by MS have been escalated to heal those wounds.

Even my LIVE friends (some of whom are on this forum) have had 360's fail on them and I feel for them and understand, but even most of them just accept it as part of the electronics world and get it replaced or fixed and move on to keep playing the games (or buliding XNA games) . People who do not like to see MS in the market try to take that to a different dimension of time and space FUD, IMO.