Black XB360 120 Gig HDD + HDMI = $479

[Joe DeFuria]

Yeah but I'm also looking at HDCP which will require HDMI-component wont do will it?

Like I said...HDMI is irrelevant for games.

I imagine it'll come around sooner than most expect, and surely that'll mess with MS's IPTV plans.

And like I said, for any IPTV providers that will be offering a 360 as the set-top decoder, HDMI will have importance. So I expect that "oem 360s" (assuming these are sold) that IPTV providers distrubte would have an HDMI port.

Also, despite what anyone says, HDMI is still superior to component (and it still offers a superior picture quality for game players). I just think MS could have stretched to including it.

MS certainly could not have included HDMI 1.3 (which is the de-facto standard) and still launched the console in '05.

Put simply: it doesn't make much sense for a games console that doesn't support high-def movie playback as a standard to include HDMI.

Not including it just gives PS3 another differentiator, one that will surely be magnified as time moves on.

On the other hand, PS3 including it (along with Blu-ray) forced them to launch over a year later and with significant higher cost.

That difference is magnified now, and it's not clear to what extent Sony will recover.

 

[expletive]

EB games manager told me that in company emails going around there was mention that the elite will have HD-DVD built-in and there will be a new Blu-Ray add-on. Sounds like hes stretching some rumors into his own version of what it might be but the idea of a BR add-on did get me thinking. If MS is truly format agnostic, supporting both formats would surely be a way of capitalizing on it. Thoughts?

 

[scooby_dooby]

If MS is truly format agnostic, supporting both formats would surely be a way of capitalizing on it. Thoughts?

Truly a bad PR move. They would basically be sending the current hd-dvd owners up the creek, and the hd-dvd format as well.

I think they'll do this eventually, but only after the 'war' is decided.

 

[expletive]

Truly a bad PR move. They would basically be sending the current hd-dvd owners up the creek, and the hd-dvd format as well.

I think they'll do this eventually, but only after the 'war' is decided.

How do you figure it sends current HD-DVD owners,or the format, up the creek? I think that idea has to begin with the premise that these consoles will determine whether or not HD-DVD or BR will be successful, and i dont think we can say that with any certainty now.

That said, does Microsoft really care if it does tip the format war? At the end of the day they want to install 360's and when looking at the choices, the platform that supports everything could work in their favor.

Also, what he said was that the HD-DVD would be built in and the BR drive would be an add-on. If that ended up being the case, it would still benefit HD-DVD much more than BR since it would come OOTB.

 

[AlNom]

Put simply: it doesn't make much sense for a games console that doesn't support high-def movie playback as a standard to include HDMI.

No, not for HDCP reasons, but then again, not all 1080p TVs accept 1080p input from component video cables. And that's about the only reason I can think of for having HDMI in the first place for games. It's just a convenience factor at this stage. These particular TV's might not be able to accept 1080p over component, but they may have that option over a VGA connection such as those Sony XBR2's. And really, that segment of the market (1080p TV's) is miniscule at this point and will be for awhile.

That said, I think MS made a decent decision.

 

[scooby_dooby]

How do you figure it sends current HD-DVD owners,or the format, up the creek? I think that idea has to begin with the premise that these consoles will determine whether or not HD-DVD or BR will be successful, and i dont think we can say that with any certainty now.

I would say that if MS switches support to BR, HD-DVD is dead in the water. Standalones just aren't selling quick enough.

I don't know if MS cares, but man o man, they would get slammed in the press for making a move like that, like I said, truly would be a horrible PR move.

 

[expletive]

I would say that if MS switches support to BR, HD-DVD is dead in the water. Standalones just aren't selling quick enough.

I don't know if MS cares, but man o man, they would get slammed in the press for making a move like that, like I said, truly would be a horrible PR move.

I'm not saying MS 'switch', i'm just saying offer support for both and let consumer buy what they will.

At this point, i almost feel it benefits MS and the 360 to divest themselves from the 360/HDDVD vs PS3/BR war. Make the HD optical war seperate from the console war, rather than give Sony the opportunity to capitalize on it. If they come out now and support both formats in some fashion and BR were to win, its not a perceived advantage for the PS3 anyway. However, if HDDVD were to win, then it would be a benefit for MS unless Sony shifted.

I dont think people bought the HDDVD drive because they thought MS would back it exclusively, only because they thought the format would have longevity. I'm just not sure how i see MS offering the opportunity for 360 owners to commit to BR changes anything.

 

[RobertR1]

It would not be in HD DVD's best interest if MS released a BR add on. I don't see MS doing anything of sort at this stage in the game. Let's remember that neither format is even existant on the radar in comparison to DVD sales so no reason to jump ship. If anything, keeping the war going is much more beneficial to MS than to have BR win.

 

[Sis]

i do. after looking at component vs hdmi comparisons, there is 0% chance i will use component. it will have to be HDMI. it is standard for me now

What was your test environment?

 

[Tap In]

HDMI vs component is severely source/TV dependent IMO.

I have decided after extensive testing that my component in from my HD cable box has better picture than HDMI. Where as on my other TV the box looked better over HDMI.

I think each system needs to be tested independently to make a decision and I hope if HDMI is supported on any X360 they will ALSO allow component to choose which is best for me.

To assume HDMI is better than component universally is foolish.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I'm not saying MS 'switch', i'm just saying offer support for both and let consumer buy what they will.

At this point, i almost feel it benefits MS and the 360 to divest themselves from the 360/HDDVD vs PS3/BR war. Make the HD optical war seperate from the console war, rather than give Sony the opportunity to capitalize on it. If they come out now and support both formats in some fashion and BR were to win, its not a perceived advantage for the PS3 anyway. However, if HDDVD were to win, then it would be a benefit for MS unless Sony shifted.

I dont think people bought the HDDVD drive because they thought MS would back it exclusively, only because they thought the format would have longevity. I'm just not sure how i see MS offering the opportunity for 360 owners to commit to BR changes anything.

I think it benefits MS to support BR, it's in their best interest to marginalize the attractiveness of Bluray, and drag out the format war as long as possible.

The sooner BR becomes the standard, the sooner it will become a true factor driving sales among the mainstream.

 

[Sis]

I have decided after extensive testing that my component in from my HD cable box has better picture than HDMI. Where as on my other TV the box looked better over HDMI.

I've had a similar result with my Toshiba DLP set. If I recall, some folks at AVSForum found out that Toshiba was coverting the digital feed into analog, processing it, then converting it back to digital for output. The result was less than optimal, though I doubt I could tell the difference between that and my component feed in a blind test. One of these days I'll pick up an HDMI board for my plasma and try that out, but component being as good as it is, I'm in no hurry.

 

[infinity4]

What was your test environment?

i saw the images off the net, HDMI had no ghosting of images at all whilst component did. letters did look sharper on HDMI as well

of course, if you want those images, i can always look for them

 

[RobertR1]

i saw the images off the net, HDMI had no ghosting of images at all whilst component did. letters did look sharper on HDMI as well

of course, if you want those images, i can always look for them

I'll assume the display(s) were calibrated properly per input and with decent cables?

 

[Sis]

i saw the images off the net, HDMI had no ghosting of images at all whilst component did. letters did look sharper on HDMI as well

of course, if you want those images, i can always look for them

Thanks, but I think I'll pass on comparing component and HDMI capabilities by comparing jpeg images from some website.

 

[expletive]

I think it benefits MS to support BR, it's in their best interest to marginalize the attractiveness of Bluray, and drag out the format war as long as possible.

The sooner BR becomes the standard, the sooner it will become a true factor driving sales among the mainstream.

Ok but lets say MS supports both and in a year from now BR wins the format war. Now we're just left with the question if the mainstream will truly adopt BR en masse at all, or just stick with DVD and digital distribution.

Doesnt the 360 have an equal chance to thrive in that environment? And doesnt it position it better over the next year as the one console that is truly 'future proof'?

 

[Sis]

Ok but lets say MS supports both and in a year from now the format war is over and we're just left with the question if the mainstream will truly adopt BR en masse at al,l or just stick with DVD and digital distribution.

Doesnt the 360 have an equal chance to thrive in that environment? And doesnt it position it better over the next year as the one console that is truly 'future proof'?

I think you could argue this point, but at the end of the day, you have say, "Why bother?" What's in it for Microsoft to support Blu-ray? The answer is, I believe, in how you define "that environment". HD movies will, for this generation of console's life cycle, remain a niche market compared to DVD. Assuming Blu-ray becomes the superior format, then as a hardware manufacturer, you know your steepest competition is Sony, who is in the midst of aggressively subsidizing their play in the Blu-ray market.

So, given my definition of the environment, the question I have is: given that environment, why bother?

 

[Mintmaster]

No, not for HDCP reasons, but then again, not all 1080p TVs accept 1080p input from component video cables.

At the same time, not all 1080p TVs accept 1080p input from HDMI either. The first reasonably priced 1080p sets (the 1080p DLP sets) could only accept 1080p over VGA. Sony also decided to skimp on the VGA input of its TVs and limit it to 1366x768.

In terms of overall 1080p support I think Microsoft made a good decision, especially since the standards and implementation of 1080p over HDMI was pretty flaky in 2005. Remember also that the cheapest 1080p display is a computer monitor (not only LCDs, but maybe even hulking CRT's could give you a reasonable 1080p image).

In any case, there aren't many people for whom lack of 1080p over HDMI is a deal-breaker for XB360, and of those people most would probably be more interested in this Elite version anyway. Like I said, MS has the ability to make HDMI standard whenever they want. Not having it on every sold system will only hurt them for HDCP reasons, but I doubt such problems will materialize for reasons explained previously.

 

[expletive]

I think you could argue this point, but at the end of the day, you have say, "Why bother?" What's in it for Microsoft to support Blu-ray? The answer is, I believe, in how you define "that environment". HD movies will, for this generation of console's life cycle, remain a niche market compared to DVD. Assuming Blu-ray becomes the superior format, then as a hardware manufacturer, you know your steepest competition is Sony, who is in the midst of aggressively subsidizing their play in the Blu-ray market.

So, given my definition of the environment, the question I have is: given that environment, why bother?

By doing this, MS has negated any perceived advantage of the PS3 while still maintaining their primary one, price. The 360 would/could support blu-ray on any unit but would still have the benefit of a core that doesnt carry its expense earlier in the lifecycle, nor the expense of a standard HD throughout the generation.

By doing this it comes down to a war on price and games, both of which i think MS feels well positioned to have an advantage going forward.

 

[Rangers]

It really seems we're looking at 479.99 for the Elite and 179.99 for the 120GB HDD. Why? Because it makes perfect pricing sense, core+120 HDD=$480, same price as the Elite, but of course the Elite would have a few extra goodies (headset, wireless controller) to make it a better value.

If you had something like, a $229 core it would undercut the $480 Elite SKU and make it unnattractive. Because of course you could save money by buying a Core+HDD seperate.

So yep, that ugly pricing rumors make sense..