The r600 might not use the full 225 watts but probably pretty close to it, if overclocking needs extra power
The LAST R600 Rumours & Speculation Thread
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The r600 might not use the full 225 watts but probably pretty close to it, if overclocking needs extra power
+ an additional 256 Mb of RAM.
Feelings that seam to have slightly firmed up...
After seeing R500 design I was sure that the way you scale that ALU design (3x 16-Way Arrays) is to go much more parellel - (5 or 6, 16-way arrays). But I have the gut feeling fo some time now that R600 has always been more narrow (4x 16-way arrays, Vec4 MADD + Scalar ADD) and they have used high clockrate (750-850 mhz-ish) to get high performance! I feel that the delay could be because they not getting the wanted clock speed, and it has bitten them on the behind!
I think that high-end 65nm R600 version will be the more parrallel version (many arrays).
On the ther foot, I feel that Nvidia are satisfied with 90nm yeald of G80 and that there is no reason to go to respin on 80nm, the AIBs will bring out some OC versions of the current G80 (with ~625 clock rate, ~1460 shader domain) and a driver improvements will also help (several places have hinted toward this, two of such I very much trust). The 65nm highend G8x will prob be the next high-end product from Nvidia. The question is will 65nm 'next-gen' R600 be on time to compete (both 65nm cards seem to be hitting that late summer to Christmas window)?
After seeing R500 design I was sure that the way you scale that ALU design (3x 16-Way Arrays) is to go much more parellel - (5 or 6, 16-way arrays). But I have the gut feeling fo some time now that R600 has always been more narrow (4x 16-way arrays, Vec4 MADD + Scalar ADD) and they have used high clockrate (750-850 mhz-ish) to get high performance! I feel that the delay could be because they not getting the wanted clock speed, and it has bitten them on the behind!
I think that high-end 65nm R600 version will be the more parrallel version (many arrays).
On the ther foot, I feel that Nvidia are satisfied with 90nm yeald of G80 and that there is no reason to go to respin on 80nm, the AIBs will bring out some OC versions of the current G80 (with ~625 clock rate, ~1460 shader domain) and a driver improvements will also help (several places have hinted toward this, two of such I very much trust). The 65nm highend G8x will prob be the next high-end product from Nvidia. The question is will 65nm 'next-gen' R600 be on time to compete (both 65nm cards seem to be hitting that late summer to Christmas window)?
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Jawed
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That would be the most schizophrenic event ever.
One one side you'd have booth babes and a sultry mascot, and on the other you'd have bean counters and DB admins.
There's essentially no overlap in the markets the two chips address. There's no synergy between the products, and plenty of opportunity to compare them to their respective (much more timely) competitors.
Barcelona's platform does not give it a universal performance advantage over Kentsfield, and R600 could be facing an Nvidia refresh.
It would be an incredibly tone-deaf PR move.
Jawed
Legend
Yep, that's why I said "hmm..."
I don't even know if it's technically possible, but the only way they might even be able to demonstrate this is to put Barcelona in a Quad-FX mobo.
Quad-FX will accept either FX7x chips or some Opterons (it seems), and runs either single socket or dual-socket (i.e. the board will boot with one CPU installed):
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5968http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=37831
Jawed
I thought your comment was based on the assumption that R600 could exceed 225W given the 8+6 pin connector arrangement.
As I posted in the duplicate thread, I think this is definitely a possibility. AMD wanting to showcase their GPU with a competitive CPU compared to what is currently available from Intel. If we hear RD790 for 1207(+) is coming in June (codenamed "WAHOO"), which it may as I imagine they'll push a new chipset with the new CPU for 4x4 and roadmaps say to expect it around then, I would chalk it up as the likely scenario.
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vertex_shader
Banned
And what they say for the shareholders?
"sorry we not earn a single $ from r600 in Q1, because we wating for your own new cpu coming in late Q2".
AMD now from business aspect not in good shape, so no way this reason can be true, AMD need every $ now, they can't just skip a GPU release with this reason.
And while they're cooling their heels the installed base of competitor's products continues to grow at a pace....how could that possibly be a sound strategic business decision?
Jawed
Legend
The prospect of delaying R600 to June, say, just to make this happen is horrible, though.
What trade shows are there between now and July, apart from CeBIT? If there was a show in April or May, then maybe there's some hope that this isn't a truly horrible delay. June really is taking the biscuit.
The original March 30th-ish launch pretty much implied that you might only be able to buy XTX in the second half of April, with the rumours pointing to May before you could buy XT and XL (Pro as well/instead?).
Also the rumours pointed towards 65nm RV6xx stuff appearing at the end of April, perhaps on store shelves in May. I'm kinda hopeful that May 15th would work as a hard, family, launch. Still, that's in 6-months, R520-late, territory.
Overall, AMD seems to have started talking in earnest about Barcelona and the Hexus.tv interview:
http://www.hexus.tv/show.php?show=45
makes it quite clear that AMD's priority is Opteron customers. So it seems to me that using a quad-Opteron to demo R600 is quite a stretch, even if there's one or more mobos capable of doing so.
Jawed
What trade shows are there between now and July, apart from CeBIT? If there was a show in April or May, then maybe there's some hope that this isn't a truly horrible delay. June really is taking the biscuit.
The original March 30th-ish launch pretty much implied that you might only be able to buy XTX in the second half of April, with the rumours pointing to May before you could buy XT and XL (Pro as well/instead?).
Also the rumours pointed towards 65nm RV6xx stuff appearing at the end of April, perhaps on store shelves in May. I'm kinda hopeful that May 15th would work as a hard, family, launch. Still, that's in 6-months, R520-late, territory.
Overall, AMD seems to have started talking in earnest about Barcelona and the Hexus.tv interview:
http://www.hexus.tv/show.php?show=45
makes it quite clear that AMD's priority is Opteron customers. So it seems to me that using a quad-Opteron to demo R600 is quite a stretch, even if there's one or more mobos capable of doing so.
Jawed
I never said it was a good idea!
Just a possibility because of how much time it could take to stockpile the new GPU spin.
The reason I think this is possible is because the latest spin is just getting back according to AMD's papers. An engineering sample in March? In order to stock-pile enough for a hard-launch after that, let alone multiple SKUs such as the XT or XL, that pushes it back a month or two just on it's own, which leads one to believe family launch with RV610/RV630 anyway since they are scheduled around then; May perhaps at the earliest? If Barcelona is to be released almost directly after that, It's not nuts to assume if things are already heading that direction, they may just demonstrate them all at the same time. Surely they'll have barcelona up and running by whatever date they decide to reschedule the editor's day for, and I'd be shocked if when that editor's day occurs R600 is not demonstrated on a 4x4 running those processors.
Edit: Jawed essentially wrote the same thing while I was writing it and digging up that launch sheet. (concerning SKU dates)
Just a possibility because of how much time it could take to stockpile the new GPU spin.
The reason I think this is possible is because the latest spin is just getting back according to AMD's papers. An engineering sample in March? In order to stock-pile enough for a hard-launch after that, let alone multiple SKUs such as the XT or XL, that pushes it back a month or two just on it's own, which leads one to believe family launch with RV610/RV630 anyway since they are scheduled around then; May perhaps at the earliest? If Barcelona is to be released almost directly after that, It's not nuts to assume if things are already heading that direction, they may just demonstrate them all at the same time. Surely they'll have barcelona up and running by whatever date they decide to reschedule the editor's day for, and I'd be shocked if when that editor's day occurs R600 is not demonstrated on a 4x4 running those processors.
Edit: Jawed essentially wrote the same thing while I was writing it and digging up that launch sheet.
(concerning SKU dates)vertex_shader
Banned
The biggest one, Computex, June 5-9.
AMD CEO Hector Ruiz talking abot Barcelona too in the latest interview http://www.crn.com/sections/special/reports/sellingsmb.jhtml?articleId=197007770&pgno=1&queryText=
We're saying there's a new spin of R600 now? Uh.
Jawed
Legend
No. But the 30th March launch looked like a soft-launch, with the volume of parts required for XT, XL/Pro not being available until May.
So the allusion is to stock-piling for family-wide hard-launch as opposed to a soft-launch halo part.
Jawed
IIRC in some review someone said that nVidia would have stated that peak max load of G80 is ~180W
No, the last spin. I don't think there's ANOTHER spin. I'm referring to A13, which I assume that paper is referring to as have an engineering sample board using it early March since the board was ready in early February. I just assumed an engineering sample shouldn't take long after the first chips come back from the fab to create, so I figured they are just coming back now. If they want a hard launch (which seems to be the new plan), especially on multiple SKUs, it's going to take a while to build supply...I'm thinking May/June to coincide with the lower-end parts (I think me and Jawed agree on this), and they just may demonstrate it on barcelona since it's in the same time window.
Edit: Thanks Jawed for more eloquently addressing the sitch is clearer and more simple terms.
Edit: Thanks Jawed for more eloquently addressing the sitch is clearer and more simple terms.
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I love how you bring the human side of things. In this hypothetical situation is it really it really be the fault of one engineer?
Well, it is PR are we are talking about here, and the reason (excuse) for the cancellation was pretty ambiguous.
All this stuff about waiting for Barcelona is nonsense. Intel is in the CPU lead right now and NVIDIA the GPU. If AMD could launch a product to recapture the GPU lead in March they would.
They have been planning this for months and months and they have known what they are up against with the G80.
The only logical answers to this in IMO are substantially subpar performance to the 8800 (not likely since why change now) or there is a technical problem serious enough to delay it in a major way.
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