What's up with the ridiculous price range of router, switch, etc that seemingly comparable?

orangpelupa

orangpelupa

Elite Bug Hunter
Legend
i mean for non enterprise-level stuff.

for example, comparable wifi routers from xiaomi are like 20-30 dollars but ubiquiti and Asus goes 100 dollars and more. Despite they don't seem to be any different.

there's also super cheap brands like tp-link and tenda. but they are cheap for reasons that make sense. their hardware and software sucks. At least many years ago.... I've stopped using them since i used xiaomi stuff (almost as cheap, way better software and hardware).

googling around, ubiquiti expansiveness is actually make sense, as it have a really good ecosystem software. So you can manage everything remotely from one dashboard. No need to dig down into each device's main panel dashboard.

but for other brands... my googling skill failed me.

So.... what's up with the ridiculous price range of router, switch, etc that seemingly comparable?

EDIT:
scratch that. Even TP-link now sells 300 dollars wifi routers. O_O
are tp-link now as good as ubiquitin or something?

EDIT:
uh. i just checked amazon. Turns out the prices in the U.S. for Chinese network devices are expensive. for example, a huawei router is ~100 USD in amazon US. But in my country, its just ~40 USD.

so ubiquiti (and other brands i considered expensive) is actually not that expensive in the U.S. market.
 
Specifications, build quality, software functionality and long term support, brand name markup, different pricing depending on region (taxes etc.) etc.

I'm sure some manufacturers charge more for some models because they can get away with it, say all those "gamer" routers, but in general I think you get what you pay for. I wouldn't bet on cheap xiaomi hardware being of the same quality and getting the same long term support as something from let's say ubiquity.

Though if that matters is a different question. I use a cheap TP-Link switch and it's fine. I don't have a house full of devices that are all copying stuff at 1gbps all day long. It just needs to do basic stuff and it does so without problems. I don't need a 200+ dollar fully managed switch.
 
There's one feature which seems to double or triple the price of WIFI devices - MESH. If it supports Mesh wireless functionality the price seems to be significantly higher.

The other horrible trend I see is some devices require yearly subscription to "cloud management", so you overly expensive devices now require yearly fees to continue functioning. They seem to simply not work if you no longer subscribe.

The difference in prices of Switches is mostly the functionality of unmanaged versus managed.
 
Yeah lots of contributing factors. There's also bugs. I got bad experience with tp link switches and routers where they need to be rebooted every few months.

I also experienced bugs in xiaomi firmware where the Mac spoofing didn't work. Fortunately it supports firmware downgrade so I simply downgrade and wait for a new firmware that fixed the bug.

Dunno how long ubiquiti support their devices. Xiaomi only provides firmware updates until 2 newer models are released AFAIK. There are exceptions when major bugs or security issues are found.

Hardware wise, dunno for the durability (although all these years my xiaomi routers hasn't dead yet)but spec wise seems comparable.

Although only some of the hardware/models are supported by openwrt so for those that like to use openwrt, it may become issue.
 
BRiT said:
There's one feature which seems to double or triple the price of WIFI devices - MESH. If it supports Mesh wireless functionality the price seems to be significantly higher.

The other horrible trend I see is some devices require yearly subscription to "cloud management", so you overly expensive devices now require yearly fees to continue functioning. They seem to simply not work if you no longer subscribe.

The difference in prices of Switches is mostly the functionality of unmanaged versus managed.
Click to expand...

I just checked mesh wifi and whoa! You are right! They are so expensive! Even cheap brands like tp link become expensive once looking for their mesh model.

Xiaomi and huawei on the other hand simply only make mesh-compatible wifi router for their newer model at the same price for their older non-mesh model.

Unfortunately different brands use their own proprietary mesh. So cannot mix brands.... AFAIK the only solution is to use openwrt mesh. But not all models/brands allows the firmware to be replaced...
 
Ubiquiti are kind of enterprise level, or at least that's what they market most of their stuff as. Maybe not large enterprise but SMEs with tens or hundreds of devices, or consumers who can afford it.

Fun fact: if you ever watch the Youtube coverage of what SpaceX is doing at Boca Chica with Starship / Superheavy, they make extensive use of Ubiquiti devices.
 
BRiT said:
There's one feature which seems to double or triple the price of WIFI devices - MESH. If it supports Mesh wireless functionality the price seems to be significantly higher.

The other horrible trend I see is some devices require yearly subscription to "cloud management", so you overly expensive devices now require yearly fees to continue functioning. They seem to simply not work if you no longer subscribe.

The difference in prices of Switches is mostly the functionality of unmanaged versus managed.
Click to expand...

MESH isnt even what prosumer or enterprise gear does anyway. Its called fast roaming for more serious gear, TP link omada/unify probably have better solutions.
 
Well I'm gonna speak up in defense of stupid TP-link switches. I got 3 of those $10us marvels around my house and they've been some of my most reliable/least thought about kit. :)
 
I think that, for normal home use, for most people, going with cheaper 'prosumer' isnt all that thrilling or enticing. You get less performance then what an Asus router will give, less wifi speed and coverage aswell, probably less features that matter for home use too.
Latest ive experimented with at home are TP link omada (ER605, EAP245v3, oc200), and AX86/AC86U products. At home, two AC86 (90 dollars a piece) are a killer-combo for the price if you dont need AX.

I guess that if you truly want 'enterprise' grade networking, ruckus AP's, firewalla router/firewall, any quality PoE managed switch will be that great step up over consumer stuff. Most wont need or even want that at home though.
 
I have a 16-port TP-Link unmanaged Gb switch at work that has been rock solid for like a decade. Just bought a 24-port.

And personally a cheap 8x4 cable modem of theirs that never missed a beat for 5 years. Recently upgraded that due to a Walmart clearance of a Netgear 16x4 for $25 and talked Spectrum into a 400mbps upgrade with monthly bill reduction too hehe.

Consumer wifi and the explosion of ways to flush your money on it is a facinating thing to watch but I am just not very excited by it. I guess I don't chase after speed with WiFi.
 
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orangpelupa said:
some AX routers also have compatibility issues with inte AX wifi cards.

still no solution from intel and wifi router manufacturers other than buying other model that compatible with intel AX wifi cards.
Click to expand...
WiFi interoperability fun. Who can forget that stuff! The 802.11 thing might be a standard but I doubt the companies validate absolutely everything with everything. AX is early adopter territory as well.

Most recently I had to roll back the driver on a Intel 7260 because the driver Intel offers for download for Win10 is somewhat broken and randomly disconnects. Intel is done supporting it. The Windows Update driver however is older and works ok.
 
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Mesh units are mostly bad and take up needless aggregate bandwidth.

Every device battles for the same limited spectrum whether or not it is part of your network. If you live in a city the only sane solution is to disable 2.4GHz altogether due to congestion or lower the transmit power sufficiently and hope your neighbours have some braincells leftover from all the pollution. You want more Access Points and lower transmit power so the devices automatically jump from the AP with the best signal.

My only conclusion is that people are retarded and know nothing about Wi-Fi or networking. Case in point, this is what a Wi-Fi scan shows in my nearest vicinity.

Screenshot 2021-12-31 at 14.44.10.png Screenshot 2021-12-31 at 14.49.13.png

Seriously, it's the router standard, channel 11 all nearby Wi-Fi networks use. That's terrible and you will be battling for airtime and get lagging network experience due to "traffic light" rules with nearby routers.

Buy a prosumer device from the likes of Ubiquiti and you also get access to Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) channels that are pretty much free from traffic unless you live next to an airport.

Another good idea is the inclusion of VLANs so you can separate all those IoT shit devices that calls home every five seconds to whoever have installed backdoors in them and compromise your entire network stack.

If you get an Unifi OS Console you can also use Protect (cameras, doorbells etc.) and many other fancy features you might not need right now.
 
PSman1700 said:
MESH isnt even what prosumer or enterprise gear does anyway. Its called fast roaming for more serious gear, TP link omada/unify probably have better solutions.
Click to expand...
I'm not really sure these are equivalent. Fast roaming is for steering between APs, or within the same AP but a different radio band.

"Mesh" is about the wireless repeater functionality for range-extending where most consumers will not have a wired backhaul through their house between APs. An enterprise grade device will use a completely different radio set in the AP for backhaul, versus the radio set for actual AP client traffic. This avoids the halving of throughput + doubling of latency that comes with same-band cheap repeaters.

I use a FortiGate 61F-POE at home, with a pair of older FortiAP 221's and a pair of the newer FortiAP 421's around the house. I also enjoy having wired backhaul to all of them, so "mesh" is completely uneeded. It's absolute overkill for a home network system, but it's dead-nuts reliable and has every feature I could ever want for my untrusted IoT shit, my trusted family devices, my guests who want some wifi, and even a dedicated SSID and QoS rules for my Oculus VR headset to remain very happy wirelessly tethered to my gaming rig upstairs.
 
Pressure said:
Mesh units are mostly bad and take up needless aggregate bandwidth.

Every device battles for the same limited spectrum whether or not it is part of your network. If you live in a city the only sane solution is to disable 2.4GHz altogether due to congestion or lower the transmit power sufficiently and hope your neighbours have some braincells leftover from all the pollution. You want more Access Points and lower transmit power so the devices automatically jump from the AP with the best signal.

My only conclusion is that people are retarded and know nothing about Wi-Fi or networking. Case in point, this is what a Wi-Fi scan shows in my nearest vicinity.

View attachment 6154 View attachment 6155

Seriously, it's the router standard, channel 11 all nearby Wi-Fi networks use. That's terrible and you will be battling for airtime and get lagging network experience due to "traffic light" rules with nearby routers.

Buy a prosumer device from the likes of Ubiquiti and you also get access to Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) channels that are pretty much free from traffic unless you live next to an airport.

Another good idea is the inclusion of VLANs so you can separate all those IoT shit devices that calls home every five seconds to whoever have installed backdoors in them and compromise your entire network stack.

If you get an Unifi OS Console you can also use Protect (cameras, doorbells etc.) and many other fancy features you might not need right now.
Click to expand...

I wonder if they use default wifi router by ISP.

All of my aftermarket wifi routers, including the ridiculous cheap xiaomi models, supports auto wifi channel adjustment. It automatically choose the less crowded channels.
 
Around me it's a spread of a zillion access points on every channel 1-11. I figure that's auto at work. From what I understand, one should only choose 1, 6 or 11 because they don't overlap.

Even with the congestion though it seems to function well enough. I'm sure the bandwidth is not so great and retransmits are happening but it's not like it matters for random phone usage or whatever.
 
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orangpelupa said:
I wonder if they use default wifi router by ISP.

All of my aftermarket wifi routers, including the ridiculous cheap xiaomi models, supports auto wifi channel adjustment. It automatically choose the less crowded channels.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that presents new problems as the auto-scan feature is doing it at a certain time interval, most likely around midnight. That doesn't solve the problem as all devices will then be trying to set a new channel mostly at the same time. It's a war zone where everyone is drowning in noise.

Then you probably have some asshole who uses as much bandwidth as possible (40MHz on 2.4GHz) with devices that have zero need for the bandwidth and also crank up the transmit power on their consumer router with 3 external antennas thinking that makes the internet better.

I'm using 5GHz only on DFS with narrow channel width and multiple Access Points with low transmit power to cover my home. Things that need bandwidth are wired directly into the switch.
 
Yeah seems there's a misunderstanding with wifi signal, people thinks more bars / stronger signal means better.

Despite ij reality, it just as if in a room everyone is shouting louder and louder
 
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